AE Ken's C. MK got nerfed!

ken

#1

i was looking at the frame data and i noticed it only has 2 active frames now. has anyone had any trouble with c.mk? i ask cuz im waiting for the cd version to come out for ae.


#2

You’re right! two active frames have been taken and put into recovery instead, omg I don’t know why they did that! I didn’t have any trouble with it so far but I wonder if it will still function the same for some setups, like meaty cr.mk forcing Viper’s Hp.Tk or balrog’s EX headbutt to whiff. I gotta test that soon…


#3

Just tested it. It still makes Balrog’s EX headbutt whiff.


#4

That’s DIRTY… 2 frames were added to recovery? Same thing happened to Ryu. Capcom is basically saying Shoto’s C. MK is too good.

There seems to be 2 changes in AE Ken’s Frame Data so far:

EX FB: 1 frame faster recovery
C. MK: 2 frames less active frame and 2 frames more recovery

I’m going to go through all of the Frame Data tonight. Please post here if you guys find any other changes.


#5

Hmm… no wonder. Been having trouble with it online all day. Guess I need to read more on what’s going on with the characters I use then…


#6

i think they just want ppl stop to using cr.mk as AA. Nothing worry anything else all stay same.


#7

wow i’ll be honest i haven’t noticed it but that does suck. capcom kept this nerf on the low that’s for damn sure.


#8

My C. MK has been getting whiff punished a bit more lately. Good find nonetheless. So here is a list of changes from AE Ken (Super Ken):

C. MP: 5 start-up / 5 active / 8 recovery / +1 on block / +4 on hit (5 / 5 / 9 / 0 / +3)
C. MK: 4 start-up / 2 active / 16 recovery / -4 on block / -1 on hit (4 / 4 / 14 / -4 / -1)
C. HK: 7 start-up / 3 active / 22 recovery / -7 on block / UKD on hit (8 / 3 / 21 / -6 / UKD)
EX FB: 14 start-up / 43 recovery / 0 on block / +3 on hit (14 / 44 / -1 / +2)
L. SRK: 3 start-up / 11 active / 18+8 recovery / -20 on block / KD on hit (3 / 3+8 / 18+6 / -14 / KD)

lol at Super Ken’s L. SRK -14 on block.


#9

I’m lost. Can this be punished on block, if it hit deep? or is it safe if it hits at the tip?


#10

At best Kens cr.MK is at -3 on block if you hit at the last active frame. It’s reach is pretty far so using it at the max range should keep you from getting punished… unless Chun has a full super.


#11

Thanks for the response man. I’ll definitely be more cautious when playing a chun with a full super.


#12

So they added 2 frames of recovery AND reduced the blockstun of the L. SRK? lammmee


#13

I have a question if you guys can help:

Super Ken’s C. MK is 4/4/14 (total: 22 frames) and AE Ken’s C. MK is 4/2/16 (total: 22 frames). I can see/feel that they’re both overall the same speed.

But when I look at AE Ryu’s C. MK, it’s clearly overall faster than Super Ryu’s C. MK. It’s harder to whiff punish it now and it retracts faster. This is what’s confusing me:

Super Ryu’s C. MK is 5/5/12 (total: 22 frames) and AE Ryu’s C. MK is 5/3/14, which is still 22 frames total! But in the Japanese SSF4 AE Development Blog, it says Ryu got “decreased crouching medium kick’s active frames” (http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/oct/25/list-ssf4-arcade-edition-changes-five-cast-members/) and the Japanese SSF4 AE Development Notes with Hit Box says Ryu’s C. MK “active frames were reduced by 2, from 5 frames to 3 frames… Total frames also reduced from 23F to 21F so you can stick out the move at a quicker rate” (http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/jan/17/ssf4-ae-devs-blog-notes-ryu-cammy-c-viper-guy-balrog/).

There’s a discrepancy between the SSF4 AE Wiki’s Frame Data and what the Japanese SSF4 AE Development Blog/Japanese SSF4 AE Development Notes with Hit Box said.

So the Japanese SSF4 AE Development Notes with Hit Box said Super Ryu’s C. MK total frames were 23F but it’s actually 22F total, and according to SSF4 AE Wiki Frame Data Ryu’s 2 active frames were transferred over to his recovery so his total frames should still be 22F just like Ken.

Than why does it feel like AE Ryu’s C. MK is overall faster than Super Ryu’s C. MK?


#14

my guess is because it lost active frames so the c.mk isn’t out to actually hit the opponent as long so it recovers after the third active frame instead of the fifth. like i said it’s just a guess


#15

Is Ken’s Super 2 frames for all punch strengths now because the AE frame data just says 1+1 and not 1+2 for mp and hp super?


#16

to be honest i haven’t noticed it till i read this thread it DOES seem slower :expressionless:

least we can connect lp into mp now lol


#17

Possibly because he’s returned to a neutral state faster, and is just immobile for those 2 frames.

Similar to how our l.dp doesn’t go any higher but we chill on the ground longer… like hey… come punch me in the face.


#18

Hi everyone,

I know this was discussed already, but I’ve been unable to stop thinking about this change to Ken’s cr.mk and I need your thoughts on this.

Now according to the frame data that Joon supplied us with and the frame data wiki, we know the following

  1. Ken lost 2 active frames and gained 2 extra recovery frames.
  2. The overall resulting hitstun/blockstun values for Ken’s cr.mk stayed the same (-1 on hit and -4 on block).

Now for this to be true, Ken’s cr.mk must now create 2 extra frames of hitstun and blockstun, otherwise we would have seen the hit/block stun values change as well (to -3 on hit and -6 on block).

So, if we are to believe the wiki and state that Ken’s cr.mk is still -1 on hit and -4 on block, Ken HAS to produce 2 extra frames of hit/block stun to cover his 2 extra frames of recovery…

Everyone with me so far?

If this is the case, we SHOULD notice better combo ability when cancelling Ken’s cr.mk into specials. Because a cancel removes the recovery frames of the previous move, we can essentially now get 2 extra frames to allow a fireball to travel and hit our opponent.

I HAD noticed fireballs comboing from much further out recently, but I hadn’t really thought about it in much detail, but I believe that this is probably the reason why.

So on that note, I’d like to throw it out there and see if anyone can test this new potential. If I’m right, I think we COULD see the following.

  1. Better and more reliable combos to fireballs
  2. Tighter block strings from fireballs.
  3. Improved/more reliable FADC’ing from a fireball into U2 (and possibly U1) around the full range of cr.mk.

Thoughts people?

Peace,

G.


#19

wow it does seem to combo into fireball a bit farther after the matches i just did with a friend, seems like more of a buff then a nerf now huh.


#20

Was 4 active frames, 14 recovery, and -1 on hit. Hitstun is 4+14-1=17.
Now 2 active frames, 16 recovery and -1 on hit. Hitstun is 2+16-1=17.
Hitstun is same!
BUT if i’m not wrong, u can cancel only recovery frames into special, not active.
Thats why u can throw hado 2 frames faster then in Super.
But if active frames can be canceled into special too, then nothing changed at all.