AE rebalancing- Death of Fei Long?

fei-long

#1

Well its going to get ugly in a few months. With Fuudo winning EVO, Fei has gone from top tier that everyone is ok with because he requires fundamentals, to character that no other can deal with. If you take a trip around SRK into the tier threads or the AE rebalance thread, the consensus is the same. Fei Long must die.

I stopped “maining” Fei Long a little before AE came out, but I still call myself a Fei player. I still keep him sharp in training mode, and still play him regularly in casuals. So it hurts to think of the new Fei that we could be seeing when this patch releases.

Some just want to see his obvious amazing damage toned down. Some want his command grab to damage scale. Others want his normals nerfed both in hitboxes and frame data. CWs that dont combo, rekkas that have even weaker hitboxes. Slower rekkas. Less bnb damage. Its like vanilla Sagat all over again. And with the shear number of people complaining, a lot of this could come true.

So my question to you fellow Fei players; what do you think should happen with the rebalanced Fei Long? What nerfs would you support? Whats going too far? What (lol) improvements (lol) would you like to see?

Change is coming.


#2

Yea I think people are exaggerating how good fei is. He’s good but not that good. After Evo people were saying how there were 13 or 8 feis in top 32 or something like that. There was 5. I think people heard Art say it and just followed suit. People just saw a lot Fei matches on stream during top 32 and that didn’t help at all.

Fei will probably get a damage nerf. Probably rekkas and chickenwing. CW into HP/FK FADC into CW does a lot of damage. Just hope they don’t change the frame data on the regular rekkas. Losing Ex Rekaa wouldn’t bother me too much.

In the long run, Fei probably won’t get changed much if the other characters (especially the charge characters) get their appropriate buffs. I tend to have a really hard time against them. If they become top tier again, I’ll probably switch to a more offensive character. Bison/Chun/Vega just outpoke me all day. Probably wont’ change much for me since I suck anyways.


#3

the thing is tho, its easier for capcom to just nerf that top 3 than to try and get the other 36 right. if you look at the track record in sf4, its nerf top, buff bottom, ignore high mid


#4

Doing anything to the rekka hit boxes or frame data will basically turn Fei long into instant shit tier.

I personally feel his damage output should be the only area that needs slightly toned down. Like I’ve said in other threads, Akuma and Viper MUST get nerfed if Fei Long gets touched. Twins are a no brainer, but those 2 characters have creeped around like a theif in the night through all versions (much like Fei).

If you watch Fuudo, he doesn’t actually do anything spectacular (outside of the Option select Ultra’s), he’s playing the character to his maximum potential, bait and punish, real solid spacing and fundamentals.

Playing Fei Long, you know what your going to get, his bull shit is straight forward, Yun, Yang, Viper and Akuma on the other hand turn tactical battles into a game of roulette, all while being safe as houses.

Fei Long is what Street Fighter is all about. I can’t say the same for the others, but I’m biased, and old school…


#5

Only thing that really comes up in mind was when they changed that meta game following of the AE patch being more rush down inclined. I think this really comes down to is if SSFIV:AE crew are still going to keep that meta.

In other words there is a possible of 2 different Fei outcomes. One where he is tone down for the offensive meta game and the 2nd tone down for the defensive meta game that could probably happen. I for one wished they could of done the ST thing and just give us the choice of different character versions of the game (thats never going to happen unless some cool guys did a really kick ass mod for the PC version of AE and we would all just play the the PC version instead :rolleyes:).

Chances are pretty high that Fei long might get a vist by the nerf king (aka Haggar) with his pipe (skip to 3:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Nl03YEfAM). I guess the only real thing is if the nerf him capcom should finally give me cr. mk->reakkas. Also highland i agree with on the changing frame data and hit box of rekka would make him shit tier.


#6

This is what is wrong with games like this anymore and their communities. Rather than learning their character, they bitch whine and moan to get what they want, and they are usually completely off base. It has nothing to do with anything on Fei being buffed, it was the change to the others characters. Fei, for the most part is identical to Super, there is no need to change him. I am sick of the incessant whining.


#7

dont get me wrong. i think fei is a tad too strong right now. i’ll copy paste what i said in the tier thread as far as a new fei goes

with those nerfs, theres a few things i’d like. new crouch fierce to hit low. reduced pushback on f+hk, and overhead to be +3 on hit


#8

They wouldnt do that


#9

I doubt he’s going to get much of a nerf bat. Same opinion as the recent balance/tier threads, maybe just drop a few points of damage on some of his moves and he’s good to go.

I’d increase j.MP hit box a little for better cross up, add hurt box for vulnerability on his legs.

Increase juggle ability on last hit of Ultra 1 for combos

MK Flame kick to 120 damage
EX Flame kick to 180 damage

Chicken wing can stay the way it is. HK CW already has no more invincible frames, LK and MK are -4 and -2 on block.

His normals can stay the way they are too, they’re within the same realm of damage as 95% of the rest of characters. I don’t agree with dropping his c.HP so low, he would have the lowest c.HP in the entire game I believe. All single hit c.HP’s range from 100 to 120. I don’t believe key moves should be nerfed that low. If anything, 90 is the lowest I’d go. A little under 115 damage on counter hit with it isn’t too overbearing.

All of his mediums sit around 65 to 80 damage, heavies 90 to 100. F+HK for 90+60


#10

want to elaborate on that, or just throwing a statement out there…

im also asuming that capcom just goes the nerf top tier route, and none of the other characters are getting better


#11

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#12

I absolutely hate Fei Long. I don’t main him but my friend does and he bodies about every character. I think appropriate nerfs would be the following: less damage on fk and rekkas. Rekkas not pushing back so far ( about two full rekkas get you in a corner, and Fei Long bodies you in corner). Scaling on tenshin. And maybe some adjustments to his cr.fp. I didn’t get on here just to bitch about him, just discuss.


#13

I’m not excited when I have to play against Fei Long (Being a T.Suck user), but I still think he should be a Top Tier character. Bruce Lee is just pure awesomeness, and his image needs to be done justice :slight_smile:


#14

Thing is, his BnBs don’t do much damage. Off a crouching light he’s doing 160 to 180, plus the corner carry, which is made harder most of the time if the opponent starts off crouching. But CW, cl.HP xx FK > FADC > CW does like 450 damage. That’s a shit tonne. Ultra status damage. Nerfing the components of that combo damage-wise would make a lot of sense to me, because even now I’m still getting shit loads of HK CWs and sometimes EX CWs, and it’s awesome damage which is followed by a good mixup opportunity afterwards. In retrospect, the HK CW nerf after Super made a hell of a lot of sense.

I think if they made your suggested changes to Fei Mike, he’d be bottom tier or close to it. From what I’ve seen so far in balancing games, small tweaks can make large differences, I think it’d be taking away too much to nerf his damage so much in so many areas. The j.MP nerf would be huge also. How often do you jump in for ambiguous setups without it?

Still, personally I’d rather see more of other characters getting given things, because I personally really enjoy the state of the top tiers right now. Small nerfs here, small buffs there.

I like how AE has turned out. I love seeing salty tears from people salty about tiers.


#15

Spartan beat me to it. I agree with some of your changes Mike, but touching the J.mp would take away our only real mix up option.

Plus any scaling on changes done to tenshin and your instantly out of the game off the bat. You’d be completely reliant on rekka and overhead only.

At the poster above. Rekka’s throw you to the corner because Fei is useless outside of mid range.

I played an ibuki today who could realise when I was even slightly too deep with 1 blocked rekka and would punish for a full combo, I felt like patting him on the back and saying… “please, tell the rest of the world”


#16

Your J.mp is only as good as your followup options, as it stands you can get alot out of your mixup, as a Juri main i can eat a st.mp xx CW combo for around 400+ damage into another vortex, and if i block a J.mp to st.mp (just an example), your still at a bucket load of frame advantage. Fei as a character has solid frame traps with a DP that has alot of invincibility topped with a command grab + airborn overhead, ontop of that J.mp is some seriously hard shit to deal with, it often beats certain AA’s and sets up good vortex options. To compare Fei to a character like Cammy, who also has solid frame traps and alot of invincibility on her DP, she doesnt have a overhead or command grab but has a ambiguous crossup and good counterhit/grab game, as it stands you have what she has and more, in which case it wouldnt be too much a nerf to take away some of the BS properties(hard to AA, choice between crossup J.mp/mk and regular J.Mp, hit regular then land crossup situations, unblockable setups) your J.Mp has no?

If i had a choice to nerf anything Fei has you better believe id throw it at J.mp, i do agree for the most part that Rekka’s should be untouched though.


#17

Thats because some people actually take time to learn the game, rather than crying “my character is poor at this, please patch this so I can counter that”. It is killing these forums because all that is going on, is people are crying about what their characters cant do, rather than learning to utilize their skill sets to address any errors.


#18

To be honest, 9 out of 10 Fei’s can only hit that J.mp on the regular side, It’s extremely tricky to land it as a cross up, so much so that I never use it, or had it done to me. Watch replay’s of Fuudo, he hardly leaves the ground in any match.

Actually, the fact the we have to hold back masks just how crap our DP is sometimes, our reactions are a fraction quicker than a regular forward motion DP because of the inputs, the DP itself is quite shit. Any vortex character can stuff it with multiple set ups and it can be safe jumped. The EX version does too much damage, that’s a given.

Again, people think of the smaller picture. Ask any Fei Long here to look up their last 20 replay’s. I’d be willing to bet the fraction of Ultra combo’s landed would be less than 10%. Even then, those landed would be from a set up that any character in the game could do. You can’t hit confirm that combo either.

In a game based so heavily on “come backs” Fei Long has no real comeback mechanic. Hardly anyone uses DP xx into Ultra before that gets brought up. In fact, the measily damage you get from the 2 hits after a chicken wing is sometimes the best way to use it, since your not going to land it.

Don’t get me wrong, as a Fei Long player it’s natural for me to debate on the strengths and weaknesses of the character in what may seem a biased fasion, as it would with any particular board on this forum.

What we all must understand, is that the game needs balanced at a competitive level, not balanced for Joe Smoe like me. The common consensus among good players is that Fei Long is fine (without the damage, and the standing jab buff ), It’s the other characters that need brought up.


#19

bottom tier. really?i’d still like him in most matchups. space control would be the same.

he’d be doing normalized damage, and would need meter to getaway from a crossup. his defense is extraordinary right now.

and you guys kinda have to know j.mp is bullshit for a lot of characters. when you see it stuffing guiles crouch fierce, somethings wrong

like i said. this assumes that they go the established balance route


#20

I imagine the effect would be similar to how Guile got several nerfs on many of his mostly used tools, leaving him as a weak but solid character. Still the same character, but it takes 2-3 more AAs or successful reads, which makes a big difference.