AE2012 Guy Matchup

guy

#1

Yeah I’m going to cover this match up. I’ve found some pretty interesting things that make this matchup both fun and frustrating at the same time.

I’ll be doing this all over the weekend. And I must say Ultra preference is up to you.

Ultra 1 - Beats Run Slide FADC (backdash) only if you are in the corner and it is done right next to you or within range of U1. But outside of the corner won’t hit. (Shame), obvious combo ability and punishes, (St mp xx normal hozanto)

Ultra 2- punish solely punish and it WILL catch empty safe jumps.

Now before anyone says anything this matchup is exactly like the Alpha 3 Guy vs Guy match up.

Jumping in= Bad idea.
Elbow= Bad idea
Being predictable= Bad idea

Fundamentals:
Footsies, Ground Game, Patience.

These 3 things are what is required to win this matchup. It’s down to the player, who ever has the better metagame will win.

You should already know what your footsies are so it shouldn’t matter. Guy vs Guy doesn’t matter what you do Guy’s normals either win, trade, or lose, its a basic game of rock,paper,scissors.

Anti Airs: You shouldn’t be jumping in at all. Cr.mp beats everything, only time you’ll score a jump in is if the other player messes up or you get distant j.hk as I believe j.mp will lose to cr. mp. I think elbow can tag cr.mp if its spaced properly but at that range you can still get hit by other normals. So really meter can be saved against Guy unless you want to get that damage.

If the player has Ultra 2 stocked DO NOT go for a safe jump at all. You’ll lose even if its an empty jump and no you can not counter ultra or lk tatsu. Guy’s U2 is now a 1 frame move, you can still jump away if they try to do it out of a whim in front of you or lk/EX tatsu but you won’t be able to punish him if you jump straight up,

As you can see this match is rough but fun. You can’t safe jump once ultra 2 is stocked. Jumping in is just not an option really aside from knockdowns etc. Rush down is a hit or miss, due to Guy’s 3 frame short. Now it is possible to tag them with a st mk but only if you’re at the range where cr lk will whiff.

Now the punishes.

Run FADC Backdash: Leaves Guy atleast -12 But you can only punish with Ultra 1 if the guy player is in the corner and you are within distance where the move will reach on the first frame or if you are in the corner and he does the move right in front of you (like to chip in a safe blockstring.) However EX Hozanto punishes this anywhere so it’s good to remember this to shut down Guy’s mostly safe get away.

Run FADC Forward: Leaves Guy at -3, this means you’re open to grabs, U2 and cr. lk.

HPHozanto FADC Forward- Leaves Guy at -3 so same as above

EX Hozanto FADC Forward - Leaves Guy at -1, so you are relatively safe unless they have a 0 or 1 frame move.

HP Hozanto FADC backwards- This is the only one I know that you can punish with EX hozanto if my memory serves correctly.

I wouldn’t attempt to use the 1 frame Bushin Flips. Any crouch normal will avoid the move and some can be used as a punish. Of course 1 frame is hard to time even if they mash.

Guy’s gimmicks get shut down as well, Run Overhead, Bushin Flip. His TC mixups just get defeated by cr.mp or cr mk. There is the chance of mixing up between the bushin flips but Guy could always reset to an EX tatsu for reassurance.

Interesting enough thanks to late night training mode. I’ve found that after a back throw. Guy’s normal cross up method: Back throw, cr. HP, jump forward mk. You can now use J HK,Now this does lose to EX tatsu, but Guy can not dash out of this, and if he mistimes the dash. You’re going to get hit. Also due to Guy’s wake up animations sometime things will whiff, normally cross ups. I’m not sure if the unblockable works on Guy, it could just be my timing. But Guy has many ways to mind trick someone into thinking something is an unblockable or ambiguous so it doesn’t really matter. However any mistimed cross up can be avoided with cr. mk, unless you feel risky to use EX tatsu in hopes it will autocorrect.

Unfortunately you can’t actually deal with this matchup its just a play it and go. Use your normals, spacing, cross ups etc. It’s honestly the same exact thing in Alpha 3 and this match up will overall will make you a solid player if you learn from your mistakes and see your opponents.

You can get technical and try to overwhelm your opponent at times with resets etc. But honestly keeping it simple is an easy way to go in this match up. Since you don’t need to throw all that effort in the other Guy’s face just eventually get reversal’d or KD’d

Any other findings please post them here and I shall add them though I do believe I got everything that at least is needed to knwo out of this matchup since anything else would just be covered in Guy’s metagame/fundamentals.


#2

Alright the thread is done. Streak if you are still alive you can link this to the Match-up index.

I don’t think we will need that frame data or changes after all this is our character :coffee:

Cheers,

Also anyone on XBL please add me if you want to get in Guy mirrors.

Deznere

P.S: I will be gone this weekend (April 27th-29th) I’ll be in my Michigan and I will not be bringing my console or stick as I am visiting my sister. So all gaming will be halted til Sunday Night or Monday afternoon. Unless you have SSX then you can atleast try to beat my ghosts :stuck_out_tongue:


#3

quick question…

If we both do the Bushin flip, who is gonna grab? The 1 who did the flip first? Or the 1 who pressed the punch button first?


#4

the one who did flip first usually otherwise button


#5

Nice! I’d like to practice my main Guy more often… if someone wants to practice:

xbl: junitZz
psn: juniiitZ
3ds: can’t remember. lol


#6

In my opinion, ultra 2 is definitely the ultra of choice in a mirror match.

  • Prevents neutral jump OS setup after a hard knockdown
  • Punishes run overhead on block - once your opponent knows this they won’t go for it again which limits their options (so crouch block ftw!)
  • Punishes cr. HK on block
  • Punishes all versions of hozanto apart from LP on block
  • Punishes FADC forward dashes on block
  • Punishes both normal and flip elbow drops on standing block - only if he hits high (i.e. on your head) You can also focus absorb an elbow drop, forward dash to cross under, then activate to catch his landing recovery frames
  • Catches out frame traps and run stop pressure (pretty much Guy’s only real tools in the mirror match)

There are just so many situations where it can utilised. And even if you don’t get to use it, just the threat of it is a huge factor in this matchup. This is why, although I do enjoy this matchup and meeting new Guy players, it’s often a very boring matchup at the highest level. If two Guy players of the same level and knowledge both have ultra 2 stocked, the match slows right down and becomes a ‘Who can lame out the other player the longest’ contest. To be honest, if I play any Guy player and they consciously (as opposed to mashing through the select screen) choose ultra 1 over ultra 2, I think to myself “Heh, they can’t know the mirror matchup very well!”


#7

Does LP hozanto push back too far? Not that I ever really do mirror matches these days and I opt to use U1 anyhow. Making them do unsafe things is better than forcing tem to not do it :P, And LP and MP hozanto FADC forward should be 0 or +1 so they cant be punished, unless I’m mistaken.


#8

I tested this out long ago. ex hozanto xx forward dash is definitely punishable and from what I remember so is MP hozanto. LP should be either 0 or + 1. You can test this with GIef of course.


#9

Pretty sure MP is safe, I remember someone doing frame data, on it to show that it would still be +1 or 0. But I’ll test it out.


#10

Another thread said that LP/MP HZT FADC forward are both +1, but it does seem strange considering that they have different frame disadvantages on block.


#11

Just one has 1 frame more of recovery but they both deliver the same block stun.

Small update, EX hozanto is -1 on FADC forward, just tested and couldnt catch him with DP, SPD, and caught him with Guy’s U2 and any 0 frame ultra is a guarantee.