AE2013 confirmed changes

sagat

#1

According to combofiend there, Sagat gets :
EDIT: unconfirmed. These are just changes combofiend submitted to the dev team.

  • Stand short special cancellable on second hit
  • U1 gets full damage in corner
  • EX TK 0 frames on block (1 frame nerf)
  • Super gets full damage off juggle

I’d say I’m satisfied. I admit being guilty of abusing ex TK for frame traps, time to get rid of that habit.

There are different things in the JP blog (translated version), where they “heard fans call” for the following:

  • Remove TU trades leading to combos (eh… scrub pleasing here)
  • Make cr.lp slower (wtf ?)
  • Full U1 in the corner.

#2

TK doesn’t force stand? -sadface-

Overall id say pretty okay, the 1 frame buff isn’t all that relative at all since you can pretty much use it like you did before anyways, but let’s wait and see the final changelog


Cool Sagat video (RaGe Lachome), lot's of gimmicks
#3

I’d be very satisfied with that. Super getting full damage off of a juggle is one of those “OK, whatever” buffs akin to Makoto getting her lvl 5 Hayate buffed.


#4

These changes are just what they are submitting to the japanese dev team. Theyre not confirmed.

Hopefully they do end up making it in the final version though, these look like good changes.


#5

Super buffs - some ones having a laugh. There must have been one guy on 30 pages asked for that.

Everything else is good. I’d have still liked to have seen the second hit of TK up 20 damage.


#6

These look confirmed, from the JP blog:

Sagat

This guy should not be allowed a free hit when his Tiger Uppercut trades. I think it’ll solve a lot of problems if Sagat was launched up or sideways on a trade. Please fix other uppercut moves so that they operate in a similar fashion. I think using focus cancels or meter for big damage is the proper way to play.

Ayano: your calls for getting rid of a free hit on a Tiger Uppercut trade, making crouching LP slower and having Sagat’s Tiger Destruction Ultra completely hit have been heard. We’ve received a lot of requests about the Tiger Uppercut trade issue, so we’ll take a look at it while balancing other characters.


#7

Well, I wouldn’t say confirmed. Ayano wrote “your calls(…) have been heard.(…)about the TU trade issue, so we’ll take a look at it while balancing other characters”.

Slower cr.lp would be a big nerf :frowning: Less usable for punishing and it would make BnBs more difficult.

If these nerfs pass on elements central to Sagat’s gameplay, I predict we will get a lot of tier swapping. Top tier chars will be nerfed to the ground.


#8

Found the link: http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2013/05/16/super-sfiv-balance-update-questionnaire-requests---part-4

Basically Ayano just sums up fans requests, aka mostly moronic suggestions. Dudley’s jet upper invincibility ? Fei’s rekka nerfed, CW losing invincibility ?
Let’s not panic and keep in mind:


#9

Nerf cr.lp is the most retarded thing I’ve heard, talk about random. It would be a massive nerf.

This games going to die on it’s ass because of this update, I can tell already. This Ayano fella sounds as clueless as the fan boys. Why comment on things that everyone knows are fine?

I don’ think crapcom actually have a clue to be honest. You can’t just turn around on the 5th edition and all of a sudden say "Fei Long’s rekka is broken " after 4 years. Lunatics.


#10

I hope these suggestion threads are only ways to help fans vent up their frustration, a la Battle.net forums. Stress relieving, if you will.
Basis for balancing ? no way. Heck, even some pros have insane suggestions (though most are reasonable). See Alioune’s about dictator: I’m scissor, nerf rock, paper is fine.

By the way, changes I listed in the first post are, in fact, “submitted to the dev team” by combofiend. So, they might throw them into the bin.


#11

I’m a new Sagat player and am confused about one particular request. Why do Sagat players want the second hit of st. lk to be cancelable? I find that the first hit of it when spaced properly is already at a good range for canceling it for block strings and pressure and stuff, not to mention the first hit obviously comes out quicker than the second. I would be pissed if they made the second hit cancelable at the cost of the first hit no longer being cancelable, and it feels like they’d just be appeasing vanilla Sagat players by doing this.


#12

Because the tip of the foot (2nd hit) can be used in footsies situations, and could get stronger if cancellable to LTS. Whereas the first hit is close range, difficult to space, cr.lp/cr.lk being stronger options there.


#13

Sagat

Official Changes

Far Standing LK 2nd hit now Special-cancellable
Tiger Knee 1st hit now forces stand
EX Tiger Knee changed from -1 to ±0 on block
Tiger Destruction (UC1) forward movement reduced; when hitting an air opponent in the corner, now does full hits
Tiger Cannon (UC2) now does full hits on air opponents

thoughts?


#14

the nerfs are justified but way too much buffs,

EX Tiger knee buff 0 frame on block is just stupid, its already a random brainless pressure escape move. now they want to make it even safer? thats retarded, he does not need this buff at all, if anything make it -2 on block,


if UC1 buff sticks to the final version then UC2 buff should be taken back to AE 2012 version,
OR
if UC2 buff sticks to the final version then UC1 buff should be taken back to AE 2012 version

i prefer the first one


with forced stand first hit tiger knee is a great addition but along with st.LK 2 hit both can be cancelled buff. thats way too much good stuff on his ground game. hopefully capcom would only keep one or the other for balance sake, and my vote would be the st.LK buff


with the new added delayed wake up mechanic that it self is already a huge buff to favor Sagat on many match up, and also the top characters on AE2012 that happens his bad match up are getting nerfed also, that too is another buff for Sagat


#15

I’d agree making EX tk -2(or worse) if it had any invincibility, but because it doesn’t -1 or 0 are fair. It can still be stuffed consistently by top players.

He definitely didn’t need the u2 buff, because it’s already one of the best ultra’s in the game IMO.


#16

ex knee is one of the fastest move in the game that can cover nearly 3/4 screen, and if it hits it can push your opponent another 3/4 screen away that alone can turn the tide of a match, with sagat new ground game buff, its going to be really hard to get on him now, and with 0 frame on block thats retarded, its basicly a free escape that moves your opponent back then create a 50/50 situation when its blocked and lets not for get it fucking BREAKS ARMOR too

with that said, whast stops me really throwing that move out randomly to change the situation?

the uses of that move is not a reversal, but overall its just a really good move for ground game, catching pokes, walking forward, focus and etc. I personally have not seen anyone consistently stuff that move at all, can you name this top players you speak off?


so you would want a move that covers 3/4 screen breaks armor to have invincibility frames but -2 on block from a heavy zoning character like Sagat? hahahahha

did i read that right?


#17

I don’t know. In a game where zoning takes a back seat to everything else, I feel EX TK is fine. 1 knockdown can turn the tide of a match, so I think getting a soft knockdown across the screen isn’t as bad.

Fireballs will eventually become risky if not detrimental to Sagat depending on matchups and/or the way the match is going. s.LK will help Gat in footsie range, but it isn’t spammable. Non EX TK has to be spaced perfectly in order to be effective.

So with all that, how do you keep people honest? EX TK. It doesn’t do a lot of damage. It sends them across the screen so you can zone (in a game where zoning isn’t as strong), and it’ll make people hesitant. If they’re hesitant, than you can get back to TS.


#18

There’s nothing anyone can do about EX knee now. It already puts you in a safe 50/50. Think about it.


#19

Just FYI trade tu still juggles. From a pm I got:

From ComboFiend on 29/11/13
Thanks for reaching out. The trade into U1 is still there, it’s just that in this current build the U1 nerf wasn’t put in correctly. For clarification, the goal here is to take away Sagat’s ability to do TU–>fadc backdash–>U1. That was too safe, so we tried to change it so that you have to always dash forward. Unfortunately the 2nd uppercut in U1 is making that rather difficult and causes the Ultra to act in odd ways. That’ll be addressed.

In the meantime, did you read about the increased damage and usefulness of U2? It gets all hits on juggle and does more damage overall due to that. Maybe that’ll be the Ultra of choice?

With all the buffs he’s getting, I don’t think buffing TU is justified. He’ll still get the trade, that’s a fundamental part of Sagat’s game and the last thing we’d want to do is take that away. Additionally, all he’s gotten is buffs (tiger knee causing stand on crouching chars so you get both hits, EX tiger knee now 0 on block, far stand short cancelling into specials) which make up for the weaknesses that he’s gained since Super.

When the new version comes out, I hope you put in the time to explore his new tools and devise new strats based on them. The grand vision here is to make every char viable, and I think Sagat is pretty much there.

Thanks


#20

That’s surprising. Looks like we have plenty of options. I woudn’t have been against the removal but I’m not going to argue.