Akuma/Gouki's health bar compared to others

But Ryu was nerfed far worse than Akuma was. I’d be pissed if I was a Ryu player. Since when has Ryu had a two hit SRK? And the changes that happened to Akuma don’t mean we have to play different. It’s still all about Vortex and Demon set up and stuff like that.

Why is Akuma ranked 2nd at iplaywinner if he’s been nerfed?

Wasn’t that iplaywinner list pretty much considered bullshit?
I wouldn’t put Akuma in the top 2. I’d say top 5 maybe. Definitely not top 3.

Let me get this straight, Ryu gets a 2 hit MP SRK and that makes him “Nerfed”? Worse than Akuma?? When did Ryu players EVER use MP srk? The vortex works against characters who have no answer (or almost none) for Akuma’s options, and Ryu has got plenty. Ryu’s SRK on wakeup basically negates any jump-in or cross-up attempts. Against Ryu, Akuma has to play it smart and out-shoto him. That means keep him zoned, use footsies and basically bait him into getting itchy on the SRK trigger so you can punish him.

Trust me, it’s become much harder for Akuma players in Super to keep up. Like Shin said, Capcom tweaked Akuma so that he felt less “cheap”, and that’s fine I guess. But Ryu is still his cheap SOB self that he was in Vanilla with a j.HK that has 15 million active frames, his c. HK is still fast and powerful. As I said above, SRK xx FADC xx Ultra 1 means a GARANTEED 50% damage combo for Ryu. And his MP SRK was never used much anyways, so the “2-hit SRK” thing is really a moot point.

It’s all good though. Akuma was never an “easy” character to begin with (unlike what many think). It’s “easy” when you see player like ShinAkuma204 beasting on some poor fool(s). But you can bet it wasn’t a cakewalk and that the entire time, he was working like mad to not make even a single mistake, which could cost him a match.

To you it might be much harder, but at the end of the day the iplaywinner list was compiled by far better players than anyone here (e.g. Wong). Akuma is beast. You’ve just got sand in your vagina because the game is now more balanced.

Also, Ryu’s FADC into ultra is only beast if he has full meter, and that’s rarely the case. Akuma’s ultra is beastly for anti-air, and takes of significantly more than Ryu’s main FADC combo. Plus Akuma has a beastly s.HK, teleport, and loads of options on vortex. You think Ryu’s going to smash you with SRK then you just palm in with the DF, let him whiff and then smash him with a Demon. No sweat.

Oh yeah, and Ryu got all his trade to Ultra combos taken out. And so did Sagat. That makes the Demon even MORE of an awesome Ultra, in relative terms. Also Ryu and Sagat got worse damage nerfs and worse hitbox changes.

I feel Ryu’s nerf was only for damage. I’m not sure exactly but if Ryu uses Hp.srk on wakeup even though its 2 hits, the first hit is still knockdown right? That’s not a nerf. Akuma’s useless long range hp.srk is painfully facepalm-worthy. You guess right and counter a meaty poke only to fly straight up. If you use lp.srk you risk a nasty trade.

Kinda ridiculous with some other chars like Rufus and Sagat getting minor damage-only nerfs with useful 2nd ultras. We haven’t even seen Sagat’s true angry scar potential. Akuma’s 2nd ultra doesn’t have any reasonable application, big shame. One of my biggest disappointments is how many chars can duck and punish st.HK. so stupid.

In theory, akuma’s great, but in reality he will never win a big tournament. Justin Wong won’t allow it!

The fact that MP and HP SRK is two his most definitely is a nerf. The first hit does negligible damage, so FADC’ing out of it is almost pointless. The damage nerf to Sagat’s SRK shouldn’t be underestimated. Sure, the AS counters that, but that means that Sagat now essentially has only 3 bars of meter, which in relative terms means that Akuma and all the other charas have basically been given an extra bar.

The fact that MP and HP SRK is two hits most definitely is a nerf. The first hit does negligible damage, so FADC’ing out of it is almost pointless. The damage nerf to Sagat’s SRK shouldn’t be underestimated. Sure, the AS counters that, but that means that Sagat now essentially has only 3 bars of meter, which in relative terms means that Akuma and all the other charas have basically been given an extra bar.

DF palm is only really reliable against any move that has over 4 frames of startup. Ryu’s dp is 3. Sorry, try again. Trade to Ultra is still there, just less easy to do. Demon is only good for AA if you do it by buffering it into c.MK. In other instances for AA, it’s kinda useless as your oppoent can easily mash any normal while in the air or just mash dp when he lands and he’ll counter you (startup for grab on Akuma’s ultra is 4 frames, Ryu’s dp is 3). Again, you state that Akuma’s Ultra 1 is beastly, but the only 100% sure way to land it is as a punish to something dumb, like a random DP or Ultra. You gonna tell me that all players spend their game doing random shit that I can punish all day with my Ultra? Maybe the flowchart scrubs.

You’d know this if you mained Akuma instead of Ryu. All the info I’ve given you can easily be found on the Akuma forums. Written and put into practice by better Akuma than I ever will be. So if you want to go on your little “Ryu’s got nerfed” crusade, try telling that to them.

@ Laughter
My **FIRST **line said “I feel Ryu’s nerf was only for damage. First hit still knocks down right?” It’s ability to still be a godly wakeup move remains, and that’s what mattered. Ken’s and Akuma’s stronger DPs just hit once and fly upwards and that’s moronic. A dp with 80 or 100dmg as first hit is not negligible, its for hit-confirming’s sake; hp.srk fadc hp.srk.

@ Venom
Just because Shotos have 3 frame DPs doesn’t mean you can’t “safejump” them. If you count on the fact that your opponent knows he has a 3frame DP and cannot be safejumped, time your jump-in earlier so as to not realistically hit him or empty jump to bait his DP attempt. Use this knowledge against him. You’re thinking so black and white (Ryu has 3 frame DP: therefore I will never even try to jump on him). Try this: forward throw, st.hk, lk.dflip palm; this more often than not baits a DP.

As for Ultra comparisons, daigo vs. akuma, I don’t think Daigo will ever jump in on akuma with ultra. AA demon out the door. So while it is beastly, it’s not really a crutch to rely on.

You really think I don’t know that already?

I only play one chara, and that’s Akuma. I don’t care about Ryu.

I suggest you stop being a whiney little bitch and get better instead of crying that ‘your’ character has been nerfed.

I never said you can NEVER do it, just not practical. It’s not something I’m going to try over and over. Not when better players don’t do it themselves. Is it possible? Yes. But I’d rather err on the safe side and not try it.

@Laughter: so if you knew, why did you insist on it? You’re basing your claims about the ultra on the fact that it does a lot of damage, yet never considered its success rate. And who’s whining? Did I say “Akuma’s so crappy! I’m not playing him anymore!”? I’m just stating my opinion that I think Akuma got nerfed the wrong way. No one’s telling you to agree with it. As for getting better, I practice whenever I have the chance to. I always try to find good comp to try and improve. I don’t mind losing to better players.

I do however mind winning (or losing) games against scrubs that force me to play scrubby. And more often than not, it’s a Ryu player. So you could say I hold a certain animosity towards anyone telling me “Ryu got nerfed”… :razz:

On Topic, at least its better then Seth’s health bar…

a scrub is gonna make u play a certain way so you can beat them, just as a good player will make you adapt so you can beat them… wins are wins and losses are losses, and akuma is still better than ryu shrugs

well akuma’s ultra IS beastly as an AA, probably the best AA ultra in the whole game…hell it might even be better than a shoryuken as an AA.

…problem is, in high level play no fucking one is ever gonna jump in on you when you have ultra loaded. Hell i play some ryus that jump like once every 2 matches…literally, ONCE, their asses never leave the fucking ground.

I’m happy with akuma’s ultra, it shuts down both focus and jump ins and does a shitload of damage. Only really good players NEVER jump, all the others you can nail them for 500+ damage EVERY time they leave the ground.

Akuma with 1000 health would be complete bullshit…something along the “Gill broken” lines (the 3rd strike boss, just in case someone was wondering…)

^^^

Combos into fireball FADC far RH are still in this game.

There just character specific for what opening you need to use to get correct spacing every time so this technique now requires A LOT of memorization.

For example take Ryu and Guile:

both can be hit crouching with cr. lk, cr. jab, cr. jab, cr. forward xx FB xx FADC, far RH and have different finishers.
For Guile the second crouching jab must be linked not chained or it will not connect.
To learn the footsies spacing for cr mk xx FB xx FADC, far RH combo on these characters familiarize yourself with the spacing between akuma and Guile/Ryu after the last cr lp, b4 the cr, forward into fireball.

It is imperative that we get a full list of all openings against crouching characters like the ones mentioned above so people can learn the combos against every cast member it works on, hopefully most if not all.
This will also help people learn to use cr mk FB hit confirm into far hk on every character.

They never took this shit out, they just made it a pain in the ass to learn, but if you’ve played Yun, or Urien B4 you shouldn’t find any of this intimidating.

This man has clearly never played Gill seriously.

I think this thread has shied away from Akuma’s health bar, and is more focused on his overall moveset compared with other characters. I think we can all agree that Akuma doesn’t need more health.
But in my opinion, he was more balanced on the damage side of things in SF4.

only cpu gill and he was broken enough. But seriously, Akuma with Ryu’s health??? Can you even imagine it?

Seriously wtf, akuma is top tier! stop complaining.

Still, Akuma is hard to master and yeah, even harder in ssf4 imo. Best thing i learned about maining akuma though is that i became more patient. I got my ass wooped so many times it doesn’t even hurt anymore if i lose a game. I just stay calm and play on and stay @ my best. In vanilla i used to main rufus and was so used to winning i got all salty when i lost because i just wasn’t used to losing… or atleast not to what i consider a “scrub”.

Good points and good information. s.HK out of FADC is a great and relatively ‘safe’ option against a lot of players.

Do you know of a simpler combo to set it up with the right spacing? E.g. is c.MK, Hado sufficient against some players?