Akuma ' Secrets' Thread

akuma

#1

So I was reading on the Sabin’s thread about how players in Japan share their character specific tricks and what not with each other in order to get better. Although we do that here to a certain extent here, I wanted to make a thread about some “secrets” or tricks that you may have discovered on your own in order to improve our metagame. ( I did a search, didn’t find anything)

Hopefully I don’t come off like a noob but I have a few tricks that I’ve discovered through experience and experimenting. Here are some:

  1. Hurricane crossover > HP SRK.
    All I ever see people doing is sweep right after the crossover…even the JP players. I don’t know why people don’t use this/know about it, but you can combo the crossover hurricane kick into SRK and even FADC into SHAKU. You can do it on reaction so that you don’t have to do the SRK if they block the crossover.

  2. Shaku frame trap into Ex demonflip palm strike.
    This one is super basic but it works on so many people…The caveat is that you need to pay attention to their EX meter.
    If you shoot a 3hit shaku across the screen (as the person is getting up or walking to you, etc) they will probably block. While they are blocking, they are obviously in block stun. After the Shaku touches them, immediately ex demon flip into palm strike. Time it so that the palm strike connects right as their block animation is ending.
    You may have to practice the timing on this, but if you get it right, any reversal they do as long as its not a EX, will get stuffed. It kills regular flash kicks, SRK’s, etc… Just don’t over abuse this tactic. Anything other than block or EX reversal will score an knockdown. The glorious thing about this is that it breaks focus and can’t be countered by Gouken. If they do block, you still have the option to throw, crossover, or do some other shenanigans…
    I have not tested it, but you may even be able to do a demonflip > throw as they are coming out of block stun, and throw them out of their SRK/reversal if your timing is on point. I know that the demon flip will beat an SRK during the start up frames.

Anyone have some cool annoying cheap tricks they care to share?


#2

I wouldn’t consider either of those cheap, if it works it works and honestly they’re fairly good ideas.

About the hp SRK, this is something I’ve noticed as well; most people seem to lp.srk > fadc > shaku, but that actually requires some pretty decent timing. I don’t see why people don’t fp.srk > fadc > shaku, the three hits gives you a little more leniency with your timing and I’m pretty sure the damage would end up being a bit higher.

As for the demonflip, many people already do this but they do it with lp.hadoukens.

Generally, you would want to post this thread in the Strategies and Matchups forums, as those two suggestions definitely fall under the category of strategy. (Note: It’s not Strategies -for- matchups, so the thread includes both general character strategy and matchup specific strategy).


#3

That shakunetsu trick is cool.

I think that most Akumas would just want to use sweep over srk, since sweep does not allow for quickrise – so it just cuts in half the amount of things you have to think about when you sweep vs. uppercut/red fireball.

~Far mk - cross-up tatsu set up~

A trick I like to use is far mk into tatsu cross-up. It’s a useful lockdown technique I haven’t fully explored – all I know is that it perfectly spaces you for the tatsu cross-up.

You can set it up in a number of ways, but an interesting one is to set it up with a jump forward ex air fireball. Normally, an ex air fb will knock the opponent too far away for you to do a cross-up tatsu, BUT if you hit them with a far mk before they get pushed away from the second fireball, you get far mk pushback instead of the much greater air fireball pushback. Then you go for the cross-up. It should be a tight 3 hit string on block and a combo on hit – the timing is tight, but those make for the best set-ups, imo.


#4

There are no such things as cheap tricks. If it is viable and your opponent doesn’t adapt to it then they leave room to get abused by a tactic.

@Kich: Though you are right about HP.SRK being easier due to the fact you have a larger window to get the FADC in, the lp.SRK FADC fp.Shaku does more damage.


#5

The reason many people rather sweep after either cross up hurricane or (on some characters) after horizontal lk hurricane is because the opponent cannot do a quick recover from the ground as if you did a SRK on the opponent, thus giving you more time for other wake up games or just simply allow you a little more time and room to mentally recover or think of something to attack the opponent with.


#6

i’m sure this isn’t a secret, but i felt the need to add in 2 cents. demon flip palm land, throw. seems to work well if you don’t abuse. palm whiffs , throw. Seems fast.

another well known thing i’m sure is if you have trouble being able to buffer demon in block stun, say a blocked tiger uppercut , or something like that. can taunt then do it.


#7

If you’re talking after a LK Tatsu then LP Shoryu is always the best options. If you’re talking no Tatsu them Medium offers the greatest damage. doing 3 hits on a HP shoryuken to Shaku (with nothing else in the combo) will mean the Shaku will only hit twice.

Asd for myself, i’ve used EX Demon flip Palm on cornered opponents to appear immedialtely on there other side. (If the palm whiffs, & not on big opponents IIRC) seeing as palm recovers so fast a few LP’s to hit confirm can lead to a nice tatsu combo. Pretty safe, unless they expect the flip of course.


#8

Good idea guys. Less selfifhness in the states = everyone becomes better.

Learning the Akuma vortex is key.

The Vorex.

  • Jump hard kick/medium kick or
  • spaced dive kick or
  • mix up with cross tatsu or
  • empty throw or
  • empty c.lk/c.mk into combo or
  •   demon flip throw
    

I didn’t understand what the vortex was until yesterday, but I always used this mix up. A vortex is essentially a scenario where the opponent has about a 1 out 4 chance of defending properly.

Cross up tatsu is key obviously. Use this to set up the other options. Vs good players who are ready for it, it may not be necessary to use this to set up other options.

For example, I was playing Doctor Chaos the other day and I know he’s a good player with a lot of experience. On his wake up I jumped in for the mix up, and I knew he knew of the cross tatsu, so I instantly went for the jumping kick on the first try and it worked. Condition according to the experience level of the opponent…very key.

Anyway, jumping kicks are to beat out someone who crouches OR blocks the other way to avoid the cross tatsu that isn’t coming.

Demon flip throw is to own people who are dedicated to blocking the mix up. No mix up with this one. They block? They eat it.

The counter to doing a demon flip throw is to walk forward or to jump back to avoid. In the case of walking forward, a regular dive kick(d.mk at the peak of your jump) will generally still connect.

Empty jump throw, for when the opponent is, like the demon flip, dedicated to blocking something and aren’t necessarily ready for the tech.

empty jump low(c.mk or c.lk) into combo for when the opponent is dedicated to standing and blocking to avoid Akuma’s overhead jump attacks.

As you can see, this “vortex” is ridiculously good. Just keep in mind that you should use what the opponent is not prepared to deal with and to KEEP IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE. Don’t start doing empty jump in shit unless you feel it is time to “increase the yomi layers” so to speak.

Another cool thing effective thing to do with full meter is a demon flip punch in which you intentionally whiff the opponent and land right in front of them. During the punch, quickly buffer in the super demon. Chances are, they are going to eat it.

Hope some of this shit helps.


#9

I believe Sabin referred to that as the 3 way mix up and that Japanese players use it a lot.


#10

That seems logical, but I would rather do a guaranteed almost full damage HP SRK, and FADC shaku if I have meter… That amount of damage can win or lose matches.


#11

Yeah Sabin explained what he meant by Vortex.


#12

Ok time to go to town on a few points in this thread. :wgrin:

It isn’t so much a secret as the sweep tends to be useful. Often when you use a cross up tatsu you may be too far away to land all 3 hits of the SRK which is one advantage.

Generally the sweep gives a tactical advantage over damage. The knockdown it gives is very valuable. Guaranteed Damage isn’t everything. Sometimes it is better to take a lower guaranteed damage in exchange for the possibility of more damage. The SRK will always offer more damage right now, but it releases some of the pressure you have over your opponent.

Another option is the standing far HP as it will do more damage than the sweep, but will reset your opponent without much of a follow up. You can also cl.HP reset if you are close enough just like a ground Tatsu.

Uh oh. I am sorry, but I am going to have to break out math for this one. Please forgive me. :rofl:

Here is why it doesn’t work. A HP.SRK does 190 damage while a LP.SRK does 130. So the difference there is about 60. Now each hit from a Shaku does 50 damage. So here is how it looks with just a SRK > Shaku set up

190 + 100 = 290
160 + 150 = 310
130 + 150 = 280

So the MP does more damage right? The problem is that the HP.SRK and especially the MP.SRK have a bad tendency to whiff on the second (or third) hits which sends you airborne and leaves your opponent on the ground. The LP.SRK is a much safe attack in the regard that if it hits it always works. So there is a trade off. If you want to see a really good example of this try to MP.SRK and HP.SRK out of a hard kick. Then try the LP.SRK

Now in other cases you are given 5 total hits while juggling. After a Tatsu you only have 4. So that means you possible combination of hits from the SRK-Shaku are 3-1, 2-2, or 1-3. So now the unreduced damages look like this.

190 + 50 = 240
160 + 100 = 260
130 + 150 = 280

So while you lose 30 damage every time you choose a lower strength SRK, you gain an additional 50 damage when you increase the Shaku strength. So it is a gain of 20 damage. Also when you factor in damage reduction

x being the damage reduction by percentage.

190x + 50(x-.1) = 240x - 5
160x + 100(x-.1) = 260x - 10
130x + 150(x-.1) = 280x - 15

280x - 15 will be greater than 240x - 5 for nearly every value you would regularly see.

So in conclusion LP.SRK > Shaku will always be better damage than HP.SRK > Shaku when used after a LK.Tatsu.


#13

Come on guise!!!

I found all of dere secretz!!!

FEAST!!!


#14

Funny? no.
Tool? maybe.

Thanks for your contribution.


#15

Post some more "cool annoying cheap tricks ".

:rofl::rofl:


#16

LOL wow guy, you take everything you read on a forum at face value huh?
Internets is serious business.

Anyway, hope someone has more useful info to post. This thread is pretty helpful!


#17

For once this is one thread I don’t endorse trolling because it was at least a valid attempt at being constructive. At the very least the more experienced players can shed some light on a few of these topics.


#18

it doesn’t take much analysis to realize that he didn’t mean “cheap tricks” in a manner such as “OMFG THAT IS SO CHEAP!!!” like some kid online would screach at his screen. he meant it more in the sense of like gimmicks, they certainly aren’t going to score damage over and over again at a consistent basis but they might land once every 10ish games as a surprise, and hey if you use that surprise correctly you can kinda gimmick a round out of your opponent if they aren’t prepared for it, or if they are looking for something else.


#19

People sweep after cross-up tatsu because it’s much safer. If you can’t react to whether your opponent is getting hit by or blocking the cross-up tatsu, if you pull out the HP Shoryuken when they’re blocking, that’s like two years for your opponent to punish. Maybe some people can do it on reaction, I’m not that sort of player and definitely can’t.


#20

what also works very well is if you do a lk demon flip while the oppenent is on wakeup and the buffer for the demon but only super it will hit by 95%

its sound cheap but like i said it will hit more then you think !

i think the sweep gives more stun so that why they us it
like in the bnb combo after the lk tatsu the dont use hp srk they sweep