akuma vs ryu

akuma

#1

i got so much trouble facing a ryu player
first of all he srk me out of every combo that i want to make
the next thing is his normals beats nearly all my normals
i dont no what to do against his crossup game

got someone a matchup description against ryu ??
i already looked @ the matchup thread but didnt found nothing about it


#2

from the Matchup Thread:


#3

That description makes it sound like footsies is really passive, and that because of this Ryu has an edge in this matchup. Imo this matchup is in Akuma’s favor.

Footsies is indeed the name of the game here, and it can result in big damage, it’s not just some losing numbers game where you make small gains but then lose it all the first time you make a mistake. Either player can lose big health on a mistake, because Akuma’s ability to dish damage is higher than Ryu’s, and it’s your job to force your opponent to make a mistake first. And Ryu definitely can’t afford to be taking risks with psychics anymore than Akuma can, Akuma will rape him if he guesses wrong.

In this matchup (and in fact in most matchups) you want to stay at the range just outside of the max range of your sweep. Get him to whiff something so you can sweep him and start tatsu wakeups. Or neutral jump and use a MP fireball on the way down to add pressure. If he tries to move in while you’re up, do an EX fireball instead, if it catches him, go for f.HK combo. Play the same move/poke/fb/AA/anti-fb zoning game he’s doing. Except you have extra tools: more followups off the sweep, better damage on guessing a fb right, better damage on AA, more followups off of neutral jump, and a usable FA. (FA is too dangerous for him to use if you have an ultra)

What’s he got to zone with that you don’t? More stamina (negated by your superior damage output), a better cr.MK , and a slightly more damaging fb. Hardly a good tradeoff for all the extra tools you have.

Also OP: if you’re having trouble with his crossups, or with any of his offense in general, teleport the heck out of there. Akuma doesn’t have to sit still for anybody’s pressure games.


#4

While I agree this hardly needs it’s own thread, it’s true that the match up thread could use some organising. Also, there’s no Ryu match up strategy in the wiki. Plus, it’s my worst match-up, along with Dhalsim :annoy:, so I want to see where this is going…

I’d add to this list an easily landable ultra and that freaggin super. That means after he has ultra or super you have to be twice as careful as before about throwing fireballs. Heck, even a blocked sweep can be punished by that super.


#5

Go to training mode, do a double round house as Ryu is crouched. Look at Ryu’s animation carefully, very carefully.

THAT MOTHER FUCKER CHEATS, THIS IS A 2D GAME. He fucking moves his head of to the side to avoid the kick. Look closely, that mother fucking scamming lying piece of shit.


#6

qft.


#7

Ryu pisses all over Akuma when it comes to footsies. His cr.MK is better. He laughs in the face of far.HK by crouch blocking and then going to town on you. And if he has 2 bars of meter he can happily throw out SRKs safely.

When it comes to risk/reward Ryu can afford to gamble more than Akuma, and this is why I think the match is in his favour.

The match up comes down to a case of Akuma needing to really control Ryu’s movement using the triangular threat of air FB.

Don’t forget to punish poorly spaced blocked cr.MK xx Fireball spam from Ryu players by Focus Absorbing the fireball after blocking the MK if done from max range. Ryu players love to spam that for chip damage.


#8

Playing a zoning/footsies game, the ease of comboing to ultra for him is not as big an advantage. How is he going to land it? You’re not pressuring him so he’s not going to reverse anything. He could AA shoryu, but your ultra works just as well for this, doesn’t cost 2 stocks, and does more damage. He could psychic a dp, but it’s not going to be safe because he can’t FADC if it whiffs. So in terms of bringing ultras into play, you are at the advantage at this range.

Attempting to guess your fireball with his ultra isn’t a great idea either, since if he’s wrong he lost his ultra and ate a big fat combo.

His super is useful, but it also means he isn’t using EXes. Plus he can’t play the throw a hadoken then super you when you jump it game because you can delay your landing with EX air tatsu.


#9

I must disagree. I’ve yet to see a Ryu end a round without landing his ultra. The shoryu>fadc is indeed the classic way, but all it takes is an unblocked c.mk (ex hadou > ultra, with fadc if not in the corner) or an ex tatsu. Also, good ryus will buffer the 2xqcf motion at the usual poking range, just waiting for the fb or air fireball.

I don’t know…maybe it’s my poor skill, but Ryus really seem to dictate the rythm of this match. Between the c.mk > hadou crap, sweep after air fb, tick throws and the constant fear (in my case) of jumping or flipping in or even throw mid screen hadous I’m really lost.


#10

The only saving grace I have noticed against Ryu is he has a strange hitbox which makes things hit which wouldn’t otherwise.

cr.LP, cr.LP, HP SRK hits fully for nice damage if you have no meter. cr.LP, cr.LP, st.HP xx hits close as well. So this makes being up close a little more bearable. I would agree with MuKen though that staying out of SRK range removes that 500-600 lump of damage he can do to you from throwing out SRKs to interrupt or trade. Akuma owns him from half/full screen as long as you don’t get predictable with your fireballs.


#11

I don’t get it. What makes Ryu’s cr. mk better? I don’t use him ever, so I don’t know. I know his fireball is faster, but Akuma walks faster.

As for my quote above, I didn’t mean to make it sound like Akuma’s footsies is completely passive. Although I think it’s true that the most damage Akuma can get is from whiff punishment or pressuring Ryu into a blocking error.

What’s the worst that can happen to Ryu for whiffing a hk? A cr. hp reset if Akuma can’t fadc. If it connects, it does 90 chip or 120 damage + knockdown. He can almost get away with it scot-free. What’s Akuma going to do in tournament? Teleport away from the corner. It’s not a huge thing, but it’s something Ryu can do to create momentum but Akuma shouldn’t try. Then again, Akuma has demon flip so screw the hk nonsense.

Akuma can’t eat as many fireballs attempting to read Ryu as Ryu can to read Akuma. For example… say sometime in round 1 Akuma walks up to Ryu and tries to throw out a st. mk in anticipation of a cr. mk, but eats a fireball instead. Round 2, he walks up just the same but jumps over the fireball for big damage. Ryu gets to take little risks (or hopefully bigger risks than Ryu realizes) for insights into Akuma’s game-plan while Akuma is pressured to keep his defenses mixed up while looking for safe damage opportunities.

Akuma’s damage combo damage doesn’t do much more than Ryu’s. I remember a post where someone compared damage output between Akuma’s combos and Ryu’s… they were about even. Though Akuma probably has more hit-confirm opportunities/chances to force a mistake.


#12

Didn’t say Akuma’s ultra is better than Ryu’s overall, they are both very good. My point was that Akuma’s ultra is more useful in that range, along with many others of his tools. Which is why you should aim to keep the match at that range.

Don’t focus on getting in, focus on playing your ideal range.

Range and priority.

Ultra, also if he’s landing near you, you can BnB off the whiff.

Precisely, Akuma has straight up better anti-fb tools. And even if he did want to use hk, he gets more damage and builds more meter for doing so.

Yeah, his fireballs may be weaker and he has less stamina. But this isn’t a one-for-one tool comparison. He’s got a lot of tools for which Ryu doesn’t even have a parallel to compare to.

He has more ways to get damaging combos at that range. Ryu doesn’t have a df to destroy fbs, doesn’t have a descending EX fb to destroy people walking in when you jump, etc.


#13

Ryu’s c.mk is active for two more frames than akuma’s and recovers one frame faster


#14

Not that it really matters, but the extra two frames of active window contribute to the recovery. So Ryu’s c.mk will take in total one frame longer to recover from start than Akuma’s.


#15

Akuma can stop Ryu’s with flying hado’s from the air, forcing him to block. I find this to be THE place to do ANYTHING with Akuma against Ryu, he cant do anything expect block, and if he’s a god in timing, he might prevent your tick throw.


#16

about the crossup thing
its not that i didnt teleport we he keep the pressure on me
but to teleport online on wake up is so difficult :smiley:


#17

Mash it like SRK, someday you get used to the correct timing on wake up.

Btw, if u wanna spar with Akuma send friend request, we should have a good connection in DE.


#18

MuKen, how extensive is your vs. Ryu experience? coz you must have something going on that the rest of us don’t.

I used to think this match was okay for Akuma, but the more I play the match-up the more it seems like it favours Ryu. Daigo rates this in Ryu’s favour too, despite having personal trouble with the match-up and losing to Akuma’s more than other characters.

I actually tried out Ryu in casuals recently and the guy is just retarded. You can cross-up in the corner with j.MK, confirm safely with cr.MP and add EX Tatsu into Ultra when it lands and that’s like 600 damage, one EX stock and easy as cake. Loads and loads of damage available and it’s often easy and safe to go for.

Holding onto his Super can mess up a load of Akuma’s tools. He can go through fireballs at full screen on reaction, air fireballs are screwed, no focus, no sweep, no Teleport; and with the huge range on his j.HK and cr.MK he can do those into Super as a far-out punish on fireballs for half your life.

EX Demon Flips and Red Fireballs only beat the careless fireballs, they don’t ‘fuck him up’ or anything… and when their damage output in figures is evened out, it sucks more that only Akuma has weak life.

LP SRK Ultra/Super can wreck the chance jump-ins or close Demon Flip offense you might try and the damage on that commonly finishes Akuma off. It’s infinitely less difficult to clutch than an AA SGS Kara. Ryu’s Super, HK Tatsu and Ultra can even be postioned to catch and punish reversal Teleports going whichever direction.

Akuma ties with Sagat because of the life and damage that Sagat has, and Ryu doesn’t have those weaknesses that Akuma likes to exploit against Sagat.

One crouch guarded double roundhouse can go up to 500 damage and it’s so hard to play as freely as you state when he loses rounds over something stupid like that. I rarely find myself having time to control the match because of the number of big damage threats I have to constantly look out for.

Making the match appear lop-sided isn’t what I’m trying to do here, but if the match really is even, I’m still convinced it’s easier for Ryu to win.


#19

I think the matchup favors Akuma.

Ryu’s Super is a nice tool but for him to just hold onto it it comes at the expense of EX moves and FADC.

Neither player can safely jump in when the other has Ultra. Ryu can LP SRK -> Ultra and Akuma can cMK xx Ultra.

I think one of Akuma’s biggest advantages in this matchup are his mixup and oki options. Akuma’s cross-up tatsu mixup game is WAY more powerful because he can juggle with a sweep afterwords to set up another series of wake-up games. Akuma also has the cross-up demon flip dive kick on wake, which beats Ryu’s LP SRK clean for an easy combo. Obviously Akuma can teleport out of any wake-up game, while Ryu can’t teleport out of Akuma’s excellent Oki mixup game. When Ryu knocks Akuma down, all he can really do is go for a cross-up or try to position himself in his ideal range, neither of which is a real threat to Akuma.

In the footsies game, I think Akuma has the advantage. Ryu has the beastly cMK, but Akuma has a much better sweep. Also, what Muken said about Akuma being able to cancel into Ultra from cHK, cMK, etc comes into play huge here. When Akuma has Ultra he gets an advantage in the footsies game because he can focus Ryu’s sweeps while Ryu can’t focus his. Akuma also walks a lot faster than Ryu, which is another advantage in footsies.

At full screen, Akuma has another pretty big advantage. Akuma can sit there and jump over Ryu’s fireballs responding with air fbs, can throw Shaku’s through Ryu’s FBs, or Demon flip over Ryu’s Fbs. All Ryu can really do is sit there, throw fireballs, or try to move in on Akuma to get into mid-range where his tools work better.


#20

If anyone with good EXs holds onto their Super it’s Ryu. Players then use the next thing that they need in the match. Ryu can take control of that ranged game while the Super is stored. If Akuma makes one of those mistakes that allows the Super to hit, off it goes (along with a chunk of your life). If he doesn’t, Ryu can use the threat of the Super to more easily set up opportunities for his EXs to land or work. The same as how some of Akuma’s zones and strengths work.

I mentioned that Ryu catches Teleports if he’s equipped and ready for them. With a Super charged it’s easy to punish you escaping his wake strats and he can even do it with a measured Ultra or Tatsu.

Akuma can sometimes be unbeatable at full screen, that’s why Akuma players don’t win matches from the other side of the field; opponents always look to gain ground. Ryu makes you run, he walks a bit slower and he chases you around the stage.

So many sick options, so few gaps, no weaknesses. You can’t really list a bunch of things “he can do nothing about” and it be so true to the real game.