Updated with link to the option select thread.
Whiffing normals for various setups (safe jumps, cross-up tatsus, OS, etc):
Edit: Because this info is scattered I am pasting who this works and doesn’t work on here. Findings courtesy of ‘Spidey89.’
Sup Sol, this is an awesome thread! Also, just FYI:
"More detailed information on Juggling
Isn’t working. Looks like the link got malformed or something.
Lots of dead links in the OP.
some of these links dont exist lol like http://shoryuken.com/f249/akuma-thread-links-useful-information-219404/#post9846620 the unblockables section-- come on nice work but didnt bother to check if each of the links are available
thanks for this
Was looking through this and none of these worked: so here you are:
Unblockable, Who it works on and who it doesn’t.
Original Gone. Unblockable thread sticked obviously.
Whiffing Normals for demon setups
LordOfUltima’s Vortex thread (aka wake up pressure):
Akuma’s Resets Threads
Devil Knight’s thread:
Tatsu > Sweep Info Thread:
Info also in the spoiler section for each character in the matchup thread:
Tiger Knee motion for the air fireball:
More detailed information on Juggling
Yep thanks to the forum moving once again has completely messed this up this thread
Pardon my ignorance here, I’m just now picking up AE. I noticed the vortex thread is gone, I had also seen a user earlier state it was “pretty much gone in AE” Is this true?
I know Akuma obviously still has a strong Oki game post hard knockdown (Not too different from DeathStroke’s) but I just wanted to double check with the community before I stopped looking for info on his “vortex”.
Edit: NVM found the thread not sure why it didn’t pull up in the OP.
Considering James Chen doesn’t shut up about “OMG tha vortex!” every time an Akuma player gets a knockdown, it must not be gone. He would know (he taught me that not “hitting a button” makes the demon flip instant recovery)! Seriously though, it’s not gone at all, it’s just not the sole focus of Akuma’s gameplay. I came to Akuma in AE, so I don’t really know why it was focused on so much more in Super (as though he couldn’t be played in the more balanced approach as he is now). Maybe the rest of the cast was tweaked enough from AE to 2012 that it made non vortex gameplay “more viable”, but it seems more like people adjusted back to what was always possible after the vortex options were lessened.
Vortex is only “having the tools to get a KD from a previous KD with very few way out for the target”.
How do you do that today ? If the target block, you’re done. Maybe lucky if you get a f.throw out of it, but the follow up to this nerfed throw is a gamble manually timed. Against slow reversals chars, maybe you can play with it, but 5 frames and below, you gotta respect them now.
It’s not a coincidence, Infiltration play it safe. And long time no see Tokido perfecting someone with mixups.
It’s my feeling at least
No idea what you’re talking about. Aside from the +2 recovery on the forward throw making old setups obsolete, but making some others work and the palm no longer being an overhead were the biggest changes to his vortex ability. Blocking was always an option for the opponent. It was harder when the palm was an overhead, but you still have many options, and if the opponent starts to continually block after wakeup…
Infiltration’s playstyle is irrelevant in regards to vortex ability anyway, because he’s been playing in tournaments since Super, and he never tried playing like Tokido. He does plenty of mixups with Akuma, just not non stop. But when he gets a sweep, he goes for something that will land another sweep usually.
Could you give an example please ?
Just some more recent examples…
(video might randomly start at the 8min mark for whatever reason)
All I see is the usual footsie game, maybe the fact that Akuma can finish a lot of combo on Sagat with a sweep mean “vortex” for some people ?
Seriously, we lost a damn meaty overhead attack. Peanuts ?
Even Ruy can vortex like Akuma today, ambiguous jump HP/MK, cr.mp cr.mp sweep, wow a vortex.
Sorry but I dont buy it that easy. type some words.
So let me get this straight, being able to do a jumping attack, cross up, empty jump, palm (armor break), palm whiff front or back, cross up tatsu, manual dive, demon flip dive, throw and demon flip throw on wakeup are all just footsies? The term vortex in general seems over used, but don’t act like his palm is the only thing he ever had. It made his game stronger, but not it’s entirety.
This is like the most basic shit you should have seen by now.
Not having a nice standing opponent waiting you attack isn’t a “huge” change ?
You can grab or time all your meaty palm and grab on those cr.mk ? You’re very good.
So that’s the first point but there’s more when I see how you list all those options altogether like they can be done secretly from the same jump.
People see and hear a DF from miles away and the lists of options goes down.
Yes it was the same before nerf, but before nerf we could do much better from a DF. And the 2 frames nerf pushed us 2 ranks behind in the “beat my reversal” league.
So yeah for me, vortex is gone.
We still have very good matchup where we can dominate the wakeup game like against Abel but that’s not with a DF, jump HK OS grab like any other char that can jump on Abel in time after the KD.
We still have long hitconfirm combos into sweep against big guyz like Sagat. But calling vortex … opening the opponent and killing him before you lose all your life isn’t done by learning a vortex today, but matchups knowledge, footsies and mindgames.
That’s all I’m saying !
Remember when we could do double dash to be sure we gona have at least a block string frame traps oki right after ? Gone.
A vortex and gimmicks should be two different things. I think today it’s 80% gimmicks working only because you worked your way through the round with mindgames. Yes it works, you successfully get a KD from a previous KD, but the hard way. And lucky Akuma ! poor life and short limbs, without these options and threats, he would be so useless.
I can’t belive you just said that. You may as well be saying that the vortex used to be “auto pilot flowchart” like so many claimed; as some still claim. The primary reason it was so threatening (more than now), aside from the palm is due to player ignorance. Once people started gaining matchup knowledge, they learned how to better avoid the mixups of Akuma, aka vortex. There are plenty of characters that still have an extremely hard time against Akuma after a knockdown. Some can only block. If they’ve blocked your first few attempts, then it’s time to start going for empty jump/palm whiff throws, or flip throws. The vortex was always a mindgame. Jesus. Do you just keep losing games because you keep attempting random demon flips over and over? Having this conversation is rather ironic too, considering I already said when AE first hit that Akuma could win with just good footsies. Which of course was shot down.
If you say so. A gimmick would be doing a s.hp reset after a light tatsu and going into a flip option, or palm cancelling into a super.