Akuma's new worst matchup: Yun

akuma

#1

Anyone here that has frequently been playing AE has probably realized by now that Yun is a very difficult character to deal with. Tokido has even gone so far to say that the matchup is 7-3 in Yuns favor. I’m making this thread to begin putting together strats, setups, and useful tools for the matchup. I know their are many players here who are not near any arcades with AE so they havent had the displeasure of dealing with this cheap son of a bitch. I want to make sure we all have a good source of information to look back to when we are scratching our heads wondering what we can do about the monster that Yun is.

The Match Up

Zoning:
Ill start this off by saying he is small, probably one of the smallest characters. The hitbox on both the twins is very short but it is wide. Fireballs are safe from midscreen to fullscreen until he has ultra. Once he has ultra, midscreen fireballs, air or ground, are very risky. Air fireballs are punishable by a properly timed Dash punch. If the Yun has EX meter(Which he probably will because they gain meter insanely fast) he can catch you while you are still in the air and then combo off of the dash punch for a hefty amount of damage). Remember to mix in ground fireballs because they will stuff any version of the dash punch. Do not get too predictable though because Yun also can shoulder through any ground fireball(and hit confirm into super) or just ultra.

Anti Airs:
I will say it again, both the twins are small as hell so AA’ing can be quite a chore. When a yun is attempting to get in DP is going to be your best option overall as well as S. Fierce, Cr. Strong, and stand jab. Just like in the Rufus matchup, Jump back Fierce is also a useful tool.

Vortex and knockdown:
Did I mention that they are really small? Yea so because they are so small, DF grab is almost useless. The one place where DF grab does come in handy is when the Yun is doing that bullshit free meter building full screen, EX DF Grab or Palm is a good option to ensure a free knockdown.

Safe jumps are your best friend in this matchup. This is because Yun’s DP is really good. If you are jumping in above the Yun and he does light DP its almost a 100 chance its going to hit you. If you then try to angle your crossups to land closer to his crossup side, the Yun can do heavy DP and get out for free. I wouldnt say eliminate DF kick from your vortex in this matchup but use it carefully and conservatively.

Option Selects:
If you havent already taken the time to learn option selects. I suggest doing so before June 7.

Jump in RH/DF option select- Perform a safejump in the Yun so that if Reversals DF will come out (hopefully autocorrected) giving you a full punish on a heavy up kick that puts yun half the screen away from you.

Command Dive Kick/DF option select- See above

More to come…

Anything more information you guys post I will add to the main post.
Also please let me know if anything not accurate.


#2

I heard his ex dash punch move thing is not only safe on block, but gives him frame advantage, is that true?! or does it require specific spacing. I really don’t know what was Capcom thinking giving him such move.

A couple of things about Yun’s hitbox:

  • You mentioned that their hitbox is so tiny, does a lk.tatsu > close fierce reset work on them? Because that doesn’t work on Ibuki.
  • About their hitbox being a bit wide, does Akuma’s far standing jab (which doesn’t have good range) connect from a decent distance away while they’re standing so we’d sweep or that doesn’t work too well?

#3

thanks for making a new thread for something thats going to ultimately get copy pasted into a matchup thread


#4

I dont know if that was sarcastic but you are welcome.


#5

:rofl:


#6

I don’t see the harm in this, really. We’re gonna need a new match-up thread once AE hits anyway.


#7

Seriously, their is 0 info in the matchup thread. Im glad all West cares about is that this isnt in the akuma matchup thread. It doesnt really matter to him I guess, he should go learn more option selects…


#8

dunno what you mean with this. are you saying that if you go for like, a jump in crossup, buffer in OS HK demon flip, you’ll catch yun if he tries to get away with DP? is it just like the cammy DP option select?


#9

also, found some frame data of the twins taken from the ken forums. not sure if it’s exactly right but it sounds feasible…

the upkick data is a bit hard to take in, but i think they have to be 4 frame startups. there are times when i was so sure i’ve safe jumped them only to get hit out by the DP.


#10

EX and light kick dp should be the main ones given you problems.

plus… despite the other kicks coming out slower… they’re still useful.

The fact that they come out slow and the fact that this start up is invincible, it makes it the perfect tool to counter meaties :slight_smile:


#11

7 frame invincible non-ex upkick, really cacpom? I understand why they’d give such invincibility to a very low health character like Seth, but why Yun!


#12

i found a better link for the frame data, looks like the DP is 5-6-8-4 from LK to EX.

guess my safejumping just sucks0


#13

Fei Long gets a command grab with 14/12 frames of startup with 0.9/1.2 garb range and yet Yun a DIVE KICK character gets a command grab with 7/5 startup and 1.1/1.3 range… !!!

LK Upkick, 5 frames startup, 7 frames invincible, only -5 on block??? I thought Ken’s LP DP was hard to punish online, this thing will make people rage on a whole new level.

I swear I’m so damn salty at the moment.

Anyway, about his upkick and safejumping Yun, if the non-ex truly has 5+ frames startup, is there any chance he gets up a frame faster so it feels like it’s as hard to safejump as a 4 frame reversal? i.e Ibuki’s EX dragon kick thing has a startup of 5 frames, but after Akuma’s forward throw Ibuki gets up a frame faster so the regular forward throw x 2 dashes j.hk safejump doesn’t work on her.

It feels like Yun might have such properties on his wakeup, otherwise why would it be so hard to vortex him if his best escape option would be by using meter that he can’t FADC, can be safejumped too (very strict timing) and baited with empty jumps (not that hard).


#14

Heh, glad that im going to learn some alts for this exact reason when AE comes out =/

Counterpick all the bad matchups!


#15

haha, definitely. i’ve been learning ken for quite a while now and I feel he does a lot better against yun since he doesn’t have to rely on knockdown mix-ups as much compared to akuma.


#16

Just got back from the arcade. Pretty good night overall 18 win streak only to lose to another Yun. I go to the arcade every week thinking,“Hey youve thought of some new stuff thats for sure going to work, You got this!” Yun gets on, 3 rounds out. I go outside, come back and lose 6 more times in a row to the Yun player. Beat everyone elses ass and they were not bad players. Except Yun, teleports punished by stupid rush punch, command grab if I decide to block instead of teleporting. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU DO?!?!? I made this thread, have put countless hours into watching/learning the matchup. Its impossible. Fuck Yun and fuck capcom. Im so salty


#17

mebbe we should all alt yun.


#18

That’s what I’m doing.


#19

Agreed. Akuma’s most difficult match-up. And given the way AE has panned out here, he is arguably EVERYONE’S most difficult match-up sans grapplers.

  • fs.hp snuffs dive kicks when you have breathing room.

  • Safe jumps ahoy. His dp is 4, possibly 5 frames.

  • He bleeds. Unload all meter into him where possible and capitalise on any opening you can get.

  • U2 is ideal VS Yun to punish his EX dash punsh. U1 windows are rare - compare it to the U1 opportunities on Rufus. Read: fuck all.

  • Tele is a bad idea generally as he can leisurely EX dash punch you on reaction.

  • Defense is paramount. I cannot state how good his close normals are, particularly mp and hp. He is a frame trap machine and if you get counterhit you’re in for a world of hurt. GG if he’s packing super.

  • Yun and Yang (oddly, like all the 3S chars) cannot be sweeped from lk tatsu. Finish combos with lp srk (unless going for the kill) to maintain some kind of offensive momentum.

  • I feel his weakness is his defense. His lack of snappy reversals gives you a bit of room to poke and prod away with caution.

  • EX dash punch is obscenely good on hit AND on block. You’re forced to guess his follow-up options which among them includes a command grab that gives him a free combo.

  • His dps are very difficult to punish, particularly the heavy version if he uses it as a means to escape. Compare it to the quick recovery Blanka has on EX up ball. Take whatever you can get to guarantee damage, even if it an aerial normal reset.

  • His shoulder charge surprisingly doesn’t armour break. Focus that shit, though reacting to it can be difficult. Think somewhere between guy’s lp and mp shoulder charge.

While this certainly won’t apply to ALL players I will say this much: Yun is an easy to use character. By this I mean that his attack options are easy to apply and he gets sound damage and stun from them. Even if they don’t connect, his dive kicks get him in quickly for easy pressure which can lead to mix-ups involving his command grab and a general loss of momentum for you as an opponent. Because of this, I’ve found a few Yun players sloppy in some areas which can be exploited, particularly if you score a knockdown. When a character is afforded a wealth of strengths, sometimes fundamental parts of a player’s game can get rusty. Try and identify if this is the case and you might score some basic ways of landing damage.

Yun isn’t a win button, but he’s really fucking good. From what I’ve experienced so far I feel he’s the strongest character in the game, although he does have some difficult match-ups. Honda, Blanka, Gief and Abel come to find for example.

As Akuma players we ARE tooled to tango with him but it is extremely difficult. I feel bad for many characters that have a much rougher time than we do. There is some truth to a lot of the general opinion that if your character can’t stand up again Yun, the going is going to be very rough.

His palm attack (which can also be faked out by the way) is extremely damaging and appears to do 140 - 150 damage. On counterhit its just plain ridiculous. It has good reach and can also work as a sloppy anti-air. Be careful of this. Eating it is a lot like taking an SPD from Gief. It also works as his best and safest meter builder so expect to see Yuns use it quite a bit if they want that Super, or are trying to rebuild spent meter to buy it back (see below).

Lastly, his Super. Geezus. This thing is crazy and does a mountain of damage, particularly on Akuma. He can also mix it up with resets contained within it to discard scaling and start his offense over again if you’re asleep at the wheel. My advice is to block LOW when he begins it and try to react to over heads. Blocking high from the beginning (in anticipation of an overhead) will result in a c.lk hit-confirm and open you up like a can of baked beans for a right royal fucking ass kicking.

Its a bit of a lame statement, but if possible try and bait out an EX move from him to burn off his ability to use his Super. Trade an EX dash punch in the face for a potential 40% Super combo later down the track.

So yeah, Yun is difficult. Very difficult. Because he is a new character COMBINED with him being powerful AND easy to use, expect to see a lot of them. The general consensus among players in our arcades here is that he is indeed bullshit. Every player - rivals or mates - cheer for one another when this bastard gets taken down.

However, do not take this wall of noise from me as a whinge as I tend to align myself with Valle’s opinion in that players in the face of difficulty will just have to up their game, adapt and figure him out. All character forums are going to start going nuts over this match-up once AE drops, I assure you. And once fresh players to AE start getting a solid handle on Yun, I expect people to pipe up even more.

Just like MVC3’s original Sentinel though, he is beatable. It will be important to maintain your cool and not get over-emotional about his nonsense and instead focus on the task at hand, that which is smashing this character into oblivion and raising a clenched fist followed by a resounding “FUCK YES” every time you do.

But man, expect a stack of losses in the process though.

(Sorry for the wall of text, I just finished a coffee.)


#20

Haha, I hear ya. Its not impossible, its just extremely difficult. I have a sneaking suspicion some weaknesses for him will emerge soon, just give it time. I have a few “a-ha!” moments now and then dealing with him but he still gives me one hell of a headache.

I will say this though, I really enjoy AE in the arcades. Thing is, that fun factor gets shattered when someone unseen on a linked cabinet connects to me and I see that wretched Yun character portrait. Anyone watching immediately groans too, which is pretty funny.

My view is that its a shame Yun (and to a lesser extent Yang) was balanced the way he is in a game that is otherwise actually quite well balanced. The character reworkings for AE have actually packed the viability of a LOT of the cast into quite a tightly bound ball. But what happens? Yun strolls in and tips the apple cart significantly.

Its a bit of a bummer, but its just clearly a hurdle we all need to try and figure out. Ono loosely spoke about how having a strong character hurled into the mix stirs up a semblance of unity within the community as we need to band together to figure things out. I’m actually seeing that logic pan out in a twisted way, even if it is in the form of a chorus of “FUCK YUN” being barked out every now and then at the arcade.

Everyone is your brother and best mate in this game now, as we all find Yun a complete and utter pain in the dick.

:smiley: