Alpha 3: Gen


#1

Gen needs more love! So here’s the Alpha 3 Gen thread. Any questions, inputs or feedbacks are welcome.

Here’s my starter


PPP style basic

standing jab: it’ll hit crouching opponent, can be used as combo starter or as close range poke.

standing strong: high priority both low and horizontally. I generally use it as an anti-air vs. jump-in too close to deal with crouching fierce, or to stop opponent’s low pokes/sweep.

standing fierce: 1st hit can be cancelled with either a super or a special. I don’t use this much aside from occasional counter. It seems to be pretty quick to come out, so depending on the developement, there could be more use to this move.

standing short: err…i don’t really use this

standing forward: a quick mid-range poke. I use it like Guy’s mk, but not as long range or high-priority horizontally it seems.

standing rh: slower but higher priority horizontally than mk. I usually use this when the opponent is out of range for st.forward.

cr.jab: i’d rather use cr.short than this

cr.strong: strong priority horizontally and low. I generally buffer double qcf into this move so that with another tap, I’d get his super when I counter the opponent.

cs.fierce: Gen’s all-purpose anti-air move. This move defeats most long-range jump-in. Strong horizontal priority, but weak against low hitting moves like the sweep or sliding. I also use this for jump-prevention at mid-range.

cr.short: quick low hitting poke, combo starter.

cr.forward: also quick low hitting poke. longer range than cr.short

sweep: Risky but high-return. Its hard to explain, but I use this move more often than not in anticipation of opponent moving in close, like laying a trap (or simply as a long range retaliation).

j.lp: I use this for an anti-air or as deep jump, but generally for AA.

j.mp: I can’t quite tell much difference between this and lp aside from perhaps the speed it comes out, and bit of a hit-stun time?

j.hp: It’s got hit-reg high up, but I rarely use it.

j.lk: I use this for crouch-cancel combo, or as deep jump, and occasional AA.

j.mk: cross-up move.

j.hk: KKK style j.hk is better.

KKK Style

standing jab: This move seem to have pretty good priority in horizontal direction. I generally use it like Chun/Rolento’s standing jab, or in KKK style cr.short related combos.

standing strong: An overhead. I rarely use it aside from surprise attack, or taking that last dot of health off.

standing fierce: I occasionally use it as an anti-air, and it seems to have a decent priority, but I rarely use it. If anyone got more info, plz share.

standing short: I rarely use it much like PPP style short.

standing forward: KKK style’s main poke; I use it like PPP style roundhouse. Good horizontal priority

standing roundhouse: Easy to combo off of double-kick jump in, but wouldn’t connect vs. lot of the crouching opponents. I use it for jump-prevention, or when I accidentally tapped j.hk too late…err

cr.jab: I use cr.strong more than this

cr.strong: Good priority vs. low hitting moves; I use it in conjunction with st.jab

cr.fierce: A double-edged sword; good priority horizontally and vertically upward when it’s out, but very slow to come out. When you get a counter-hit, you do 2x dmg, when you take a counter-hit, you take 2x dmg. I generally use this in anticipation of opponent’s attack or reaction to far-jump.

cr.short: Combo move. When a jump-in hit, either land this and go for the super, or just switch to PPP style alpha combo.

cr.forward: KKK style’s main low hitting poke. Fast, long, but leaves you a bit open if wiffed.

cr.roundhouse: Great anti-air vs. opponents right above you. If timed properly, this move will atleast give you a cross-counter against any normal jump-in, even 'gief’s knee.

j.lp: Same as PPP style j.lp

j.mp: Same as above

j.hp: Great priority toward the bottom; I use this vs. opponent’s wakeup, or as alternative to double-kick when I anticipate an opponent to try counter the double-kick with horizontally high-priority anti-air.

j.lk: Same as PPP style j.lk

j.mk: Crossup-move. Even better than PPP style cross-up. You can also juggle the opponent for quite a bit after the arial counter-hit using this move.

j.hk: Main jump-in move; the double-kick. Its best used at max range, so that the tip of the kick hits the opponent, and at an altitude barely high enough so that you can go either for the second kick or land directly and go for low hitting move.

Throws;

PPP style or KKK style ground throws: You can land his KKK style super grab lvl3 anywhere, and lvl1~3 in the corner given that the opponent doesn’t mid-air activate or SC after each of the throw.

Air throw; midair KK: Its technically possible to combo his KKK air grab lvl3 from the air-throw at specific condition, but I’ve never been able to do it save in practice.

It seems as if Gen’s air throw have decent range horizontally, as well as vertically, but not as hideously wide range like sim’s. I don’t use air-throw much tho.


Special moves

PPP style

rapid punch: fierce RP(rapid punch) comes out in 2 frames, which makes it great for disturbing opponent’s rush, but due to low dmg, its crap for combos. Also, since it is not an inv. frame move, its not very wise to use it on wake up too much.

dp.k: stronger the kick botton you use, higher you go in the air, more kicks you’d land, but more open you’d be to retaliation if wiffed. I use mk version the most.

KKK style

b(charge)f.p: Not much use for the fierce version save the times when your opponent is sleeping. jab version is for rush-down and quick retaliation, strong version for going under fireballs. Try to land the tip of the last poke, or else you can get retaliated.

d(charge)u.K: On-reaction retaliation against badly timed fireballs or sweeps, on opponent’s wakeup, or to get out of the corner. When you push up initially, the lever direction you put would be the corner you’d fly to. After that, if you keep pressing up, he’ll go above the opponent and fly down if you press down(you can also press down-left/right and control the angel), and simply lands w/o attacking if you do nothing. If you press down after he goes to the corner, he will come down diagonally with a kick. (Sharp angle if simply pressed down, mild angle if pressed down and direction of the opponent.)

Supers

PPP style

qcf.qcf.p: lvl1 is combo only, lvl2 if for combos and reversals, lvl3 is for combos and going under fireballs. This move doesn’t seem to suffer much from damage reduction in combos, good shit.

qcb.qcb.p: Gen lands a rapid punch on the opponent, and poisons them or something. When the count-down ont he opponent reaches zero, they get dizzied. Run like mad once you land this move:)lvl1 is…err, I don’t really use it much? lvl2, I use it as a reversal, and 3 I almost never use.

KKK stype

qcf.qcf.k: A combo super. Although this move will grab anyone in the air, it does not have an invincibility while he is travelling; this meaning you can’t use it on the wake-up vs. gief’s body splash and hope to grab him.

midair qcb.qcb.k: VC killer. I generally use lvl1 in the corner, or to beat opponent’s normal or activation anti-air, and lvl3 for the finish. The hits of this super will combo if done against cornered opponents (though, height adjustment is required.)
Unlike the d(charge)u.k, you control the direction by pressing the K bottons accordingly; short moves you to the right corner, forward to the center and roundhouse to the left.


Tid-bits

Its a very basic crap, but non-counter hit of KKK style cr.hk vs. air opponent combos into KKK qcf.qcf.K (lvl1 ~ 3), and it does quite a bit of dmg even at lvl 1. I tend to use this when the opponent tries air recovery near the corner, or activate after the corner throw.

Anyways, if anyone can share their stuff, I’d appreciate it a lot.


#2

ahh, theres a few descrez here an there il just add a few notes that pop in my head
um:
u can use s.hp to AA when c.hp doesnt do the job
the waterfallkick can be dialed on block as well as hit
the death touch super drains life every time click, and combos from close c.lk/lp along with a few others depennding on lvls
u can drum the punch strengths for instant thousandhands out of buffer string
buffer string like DS games.
air grab super breaks all juggle rules
u can swtich styles while mid animation.
thats all i care to write at the moment


#3

now that you’ve mentioned it, the shit i wrote got some stuff missing here and there. Thx

More basic stuff;

Only the last hit of death touch SC creates the count-down effect.

When using the water fall kick’s 3 strike > crossup, you can control the regular crossup or front crossup by controlling the tempo of the kick. Do a quick 3 kick and you get a regular crossup, time it a bit slower and you get a front crossup.

Also, you can decide wether you get a crossup or simple front jump in by jumping immediately or waiting a breath. (Timing differs from character to character. For Cammy and other slow wake-up characters, you’d have to wait either way.)

PPP qcf.qcf.p lvl2 SC combos from counter-hit KKK cr.fierce. This might be character specific, so I gotta test it out more.

Some character specific stuff;

vs. Akuma

Akuma’s divekick can be countered by PPP style st.strong. You can land a stance change > KKK style grab SC. Either that, or waterfall kick would work if done early.
The midair fireball can be dealt either by vertical jump block, or PPP cr.fierce.
I tend to use cr.fierce toward the end of tornado kick, but it seems harder to time than ryu’s tornado kick. It might be better just to place a cr.forward on the landing instead of risking cr.fierce.

vs. Zangief

Gief’s j.fierce and knee can be countered by PPP cr.fierce, though max range punch would either beat it or get a cross-counter.
KKK cr.rh either beats or cross-counter a body press if timed correctly, and gets a cross-counter from the knee. The waterfall kick beats both.
KKK cr.jab gets pile-drivered, so its better not to use it a multiple time as a poke. Instead, st.jab hits crouching gief, so that can be a good substitute.
A retaliation for blocked lariat can be either the qcf.qcf.p super, or PPP sweep.


#4

gen vs gief is fuckin stupid.

walk back and forth cvs2 style and hit c.hp > gief.


#5

Simple repetition doesn’t work vs. ppl that knows wtf they’re doing. Gief’s got their own asset of moves to counter exactly that, being empty jump > activation and quick lariat, as well as the sweep and cr.hp. Since the anti-air is quite simple as is save activation, the meat of the matchup will be on the ground.

Which comes down to this;

Counter for individual Gief’s ground asset

dp.p < wiff and PPP sweep, lvl2 or higher SC
cr.fierce < KKK standing jab.
sweep < PPP standing or cr.strong

Dealing with gief in poke range is not that big of a problem; its losing out on the mindgame and letting him in range even once, which maybe that one chance which kills you. (w/o any super meter, Gen’s got no way to escape gief’s block VC)

More vs. Akuma stuff

footsies and poke range vs. V-Akuma

Main difference when fighting w/ Akuma compared to character like Ken/Ryu is(to Gen) is that Akuma’s sweep range = death to Gen (although Gen being 3 frame character helps a bit)

This means the following;

Gen have two sets of poke range to keep on the ground fighting Akuma, one being KKK style standing jab at max range, and one just outside of that.

KKK standing jab acts as jump-suppressor, fireball suppressor, jab suppressor and foward mk suppressor at the right range, not to mention you can prevent Akuma’s unblockable VC on the start by immediate AC at this range.

Problem you’d face at this range is the following; Akuma’s standing jab and activation > walk sweep.

Gen’s PPP style cr.mp beats Akuma’s jab, and you can also buffer it into lvl2 SC. As for the VC, the only way to avoid it is to bait it and mix the two of the ranges, which comes to the 2nd part.

Outside KKK jab range;

Still carries over all the suppression, but higher risk to go for throws. I guess its a trade off between wether the opponent have the meter or not.


#6

I use X-gen. Every battle is like climbing the himalayas on your hands lol. Gen rules though.


#7

Some early A3 videos has john choi using Gen if you want to see how Gen can kick serious ass.

-ninj


#8

There are more recent Dark Gen and Morimomo Gen asskicking as well. Infact, I do have some VIP Ibaraki(I think that’s what the place is called?) Arcade ranking btl vids if some ppl are interested, and I feel non-lazy enough to start sharing.

archtype >

All I can say is, amen.


#9

Hmm, seeing as if not many ppl seems to want to elaborate, I guess I’ll babble more stuff all by my lonely self. Gen lurve!!

I’m guessing one of the more difficult characters for Gen to deal with, are Charlie Chun and Cammy. Wow, all C names. Anyways, here goes

vs. Charlie

KKK style standing jab acts as a suppressor for charlie’s sobat and lever roundhouse (Although lever hk beats the jab once it’s fully out.), as well as PPP style standing mp.

Although Charlie’s cr.mp and cr.mk are annoying as hell, not to mention his sonic, Gen can counter Charlie’s mk w/ mp, and wiffed mp with a sweep (in case Nash throws the sonic, it’ll be a cross counter but you deal more damage.) This is a bit tricky since Gen’s comfortable range fighting Charlie is closer than the sweep range.

You can deal with ALL of Charlie’s jump-in with either PPP standing mp or cr.fierce.

HOWEVER! PPP style j.jab beats Charlie’s cr.fierce AND cr.strong at the right timing and distance, although Charlie can air throw you when you attempt a cr.mp distance jump. This becomes a mind game, but its something to know when Charlie used up asll his V-meter.

Charlie can deal with all other form of jump-in with either cr.strong or cr.fierce.

Charlie can’t retaliate vs. max range KKK jab rolling aside from cr.mk (which will be blocked). Use it a lot to pressure him from throwing around the sonic.

One thing to note is if you empty jump with KKK mode at max range of double kick, Charlie’s AA VC wiffs.

I guess it all comes down to, how to make Charlie use up his VC meter w/ KKK SC or empty jump, so that you get an option to jump when you’re getting pushed on the ground (Which will almost always happen vs. good Charlie.)


More stuff

Dealing with Charlie when you’re cornered

Being cornered vs. Charlie = death, as with most any character. Part of it due to the following reasons, for Gen;

KKK/PPP jab doesn’t couner Charlie’s sonic > forward.rh lockdown
Can’t manage the range of KKK jab rolling (use it and die, basically)
Can’t jump forward
Very risky to jump straight up if Charlie’s got a full meter
You’re locked in the range where Charlie’s standing fierce prevent your straight jump, his cr.mk prevents range adjustment, and his forward.rh chipping away at your guard meter.

Soooo…here’s couple of things Gen can do;

PPP lvl3 dash SC can go through sonic after confirmation.
KKK d(charge)u wall kick can counter cr.mk and sometimes sonic if timed correctly.
Run to the other side of the wall using it as well.
Low altitude KKK arial super’s 2nd hit combos (though distance/altitude is crucial) in the corner, which can be used to pressure Charlie from countering Gen’s vertical jump with VC.

Its important to balance out the management of your super meter and risk you take; if its the first round, it might be better to look for another alternative to getting out of the corner instead of lvl3 super. If its the last round…well.


#10

How much damage does Gen level 3 super do, the one where he hits u and u flash for 5 secs. U lose energy as each second passes and if it hits 0, then u get stunned.

How much energy is in total and what is the best combo u can do after that , so the damage all in all ?


#11

Speaking of damage and the ‘touch of death’ super, whats Gen’s 100% combo? I think it was in a stfchina vid or something. hope you know which one im on about, looked like proxy cancel into aforementioned super.

So what’s V-gen saying? I know Gen’s best in A-ism, proxy cancels > v-ism (hello guy). but,

  1. whats the infinte? is it J.short in KKK, with a weird jump pattern?

  2. anygood set-ups for V-gen to land his combos? must be something other than Anti-air. Any nice way to get back to 1)?

  3. I’m sure i’ve seen V-gen alternate (KKK) c.fierce / s.roundhouse a few times, true start to a VC. Is this my eyes, or is it possible.

  4. speaking of gen’s vc. what are they really?

good thread with worthwhile info.

subz


#12

Over 50%.

Something like j.rh, c.short, c.short, c.forward, c.fierce or j.rh, s.strong, s.forward, s.rh.

About 80%.

KKK j.fierce, PPP s.jab, s.jab xx rh Gekirou (7 hits), s.strong, c.fierce xx level 1 death point attack, s.strong, c.fierce xx rh Gekirou (7 hits), level 2 Jakouha, (taunt).

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=1640490&postcount=170


#13

What’s the situation where you can combo the air qcb,qcb+k super? Do they have to be in the air?
If you have no meter and you land 3K dLK, what’s the best follow up? If they recover, should you go for an air throw or do something else?


#14

In case you didn’t know: To do a short kick off the wall during the super press short (left corner) or roundhouse (right corner).

Opponent in the corner: Activate the super late and then do a short kick off the wall. The second hit whiffs against some characters if they’re too close to the corner.

You in the corner: Activate late and do any kind of kick off the wall.

Opponent in the air and in the corner: After activating do a short kick off the wall.

A true combo would be c.short xx strong Jasen (charge b, f + strong).

KKK j.roundhouse (2 hits), c.roundhouse if the distance to the corner is right.

In the corner KKK c.roundhouse or s.roundhouse and then if they air recover c.roundhouse.

Depending on distance KKK s.jab and PPP c.fierce on the ground. KKK j.roundhouse, j.fierce and the air throw in the air.

Close to the corner you can walk under them and use KKK c.roundhouse.

There are always lots of things you can do with Gen. Don’t be predictable.


#15

I’ve been really playing Gen a lot these days and the tips have been very helpful. Here are some combos I usually use…

j. hp, cr. mp, cr. hp
j. hp, s. mk, s. hk
j. mk (cross-up), cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. mp, cr. hp

My favorite…

j mk (cross-up), cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. mp, lev.1 Zanei, switch to KKK during animation, lev.2 Jakoha before they land.


#16

Where?

I’m interested

thanks