In the games there’s no ancient race, that’s just the Anime. All SF Animes = not official or canon.
In the games Goutetsu created the Ansatsuken art practised by Gouki and Gouken and trained those two who were brothers. He didn’t hide moves or forbid things like he did in the Anime either. It was Gouken that hid moves from Ryu and Ken. Again, no ancient race.
Those statues could be of anybody. Kind of doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
And since Gouki destroyed the entire island those statues are all gone anyways…
Uh I never said that the persons depicted as statutes of the warriors practiced the style of martial arts used by Ken and Ryu, if you watch the film you’d see that the dark hadou has a life outside the shotokan style. The statues do, however actually bear a striking resemblance to Akuma and those warriors, (complete with prayer beads) just because the island was destroyed doesn’t change that fact or make it any less relevant.
If you are going to dismiss the origin based on source material, than you’ll have to actually point to something that says otherwise dude, or at least show that it is somehow inconsistent with existing canon.
I think everyone is a little too quick to fob off the story in Alpha Generations which is clearly marked in the start as “planned and produced by Capcom”, instead relying on obscure text from almost a decade ago. Quite frankly, I’ll gladly accept the canon presented in the latest anime as apposed to say a gamest mook.
Point to something that says otherwise? Check my sig, check the link out. A slew of references there for you to look into.
All of the Animes have some note like that, most of them say “original story by Capcom.” That means that SF’s original story was done by Capcom. Planned and Produced by Capcom means jack squat. That means they planned and produced it, the end. They didn’t say it retcons anything at any point in time nor does it say Capcom even wrote the story, they planned on doing another Anime, and produced it. Heh, they freaking made X-Men vs. Street Fighter but that doesn’t make the game part of SF’s official storyline. For crying out loud Okamoto who has been involved in Street Fighter since the beginning executive produced the other SF Alpha Anime. I forget who but someone who works for Capcom even appeared in the craptacular live action movie as a cook. It doesn’t make it’s story official at all. If Capcom of Japan takes a stand and says the Anime is official than it is. Until then it isn’t. The only thing that’s official is what’s in the games and what Capcom says is canon in said games and which games they say are canon and that’s it. That pretty much goes across the board for every game franchise. Nintendo says those CD Philips Zelda games ain’t canon they ain’t, Konami says that the first GBA Castlevania game, Castlevania 64, and that gameboy game with Sophia Belmont ain’t canon they are not. They have final say in the matter.
An extremely FAT CHANCE of Capcom saying that this Anime’s official. First of all, it’s an OVA. For the most part when something is presented in an OVA format it’s outside of normal continuity or it takes a bunch of liberties with continuity, more so than normal(which is why I can blindly ignore some of the stuff in this Anime with ease). That is something that’s understood by Anime/Manga fans almost immediatly. There are exceptions but that’s usually how it works.
Second of all, right now Capcom of Japan doesn’t really care that much about SF’s story anymore to make such a statement. They told Studio Udon that there is no SF story, each game exists within it’s own universe, contradicting a bunch of the All About Capcom Books and official SF books and lots of other information.
However even with this scenario let’s say that SFZ2 (SFA2) exists within it’s own universe. This Anime contradicts a bunch of it.
There are a slew of things wrong with this Anime for it to be even considered canon. Where to start…
Goutetsu and Gouken do not look like that. They are altering the way characters have looked for a looong time.
Like I already said Goutetsu did not hide techniques from Gouken or Gouki. He also invented the style, there’s no other old man(the fake Retsu guy) who uses the same style. When Gouken killed Goutetsu Goutetsu had a smile on his face.
Ryu did not witness Gouken’s death.
Ryu vs. Sakura did not go down like that. Refer to Sakura’s SFZ/A2 ending.
Ryu vs. Gouki did not go down like that. Refer to Ryu’s SFZ2 ending.
Ryu being raised in a temple and him running away never happened. Ditto for the bloodline, and all other stuff pertaining to that except for Gouken and Gouki being brothers.
Ken had a ponytail with a red headband during that time.
It really has nothing to do with my feelings towards the Anime. I liked some things from it actually, I’m not it’s harshest critic. If Capcom stands up and says it’s official, let’s say by the time they put out another SF Eternal Challenge Book for SF’s 20th Anniversary (If they do that) I will be the first to say it’s canon and that will be put in our SF Plot Guide and everything will be retconed as thus. But until that happens and Capcom retcons those seven things above among a few other things I might have forgotten it ain’t. If Capcom says those statues are related to Gouki they are. If not, it’s speculation with nothing to back that up whatsoever.
Not quite, they’re the Four Deva Kings of Buddhism, and we don’t know why or how but Gouki sculpted them. From AASFZ2.
The ancient race idea in Generations was borrowed from Nakahira-sensei’s Street Fighter Zero manga, when Gouken tells Ryu & Ken about the history of their ansatsuken, how it eradicated many in the past.
No problem mbthomas. Don’t be dissing sano too much though, most of what he said is true, just not what you were asking about. He kept going on because you made an indication for Generations introducing previously unknown or unconfirmed canon. Canon elements tied to any SF anime come from one of two ways: either Capcom has already stated it and the anime incorporates it, or Capcom is inspired by the anime and declares it later on in future games or statements.
The same is true for manga, with one exception, more details to come with time and further inquiries, hehe.:badboy:
Thanks vasilli, the thing sano doesn’t know is that actually read through the plot guide and other sources before I actually posted, however, unlike him I’m not inclined to automatically believe the information in the guide.
The difference between your post and his was that you understood the question and actually informed me of something I didn’t know from a body of work, rather than using non-evidence to speculate on what wasn’t written in the past - which is meaningless.
I am well aware of the differences and departatures and the fact is that they are inconsequential details to say the least.
For some reason Sano is strongly against imagination and interpretation, he will actually try and to flat out tell you what to believe and what not to believe, waiving his plot guide and his canon crap in the air. Well all i can say to that line of thinking is fuck you, let me express my opinions, questions and theories and see how others respond to it.
Well if you read the plot guide it says in a bunch of instances none of the animes, mangas, and so forth are canon, it’s in all caps. Everything I said is written in a source or in said game and a lot of that is in the very same plot guide you don’t wish to acknowledge. There’s stuff in the plot guide I question too and we have lengthy discussions about it in the Warrior’s Fate thread, some stuff people agree with me on, some don’t, some stuff I say works it’s way in and some doesn’t, I don’t blindly agree with everything in the guide either though knowing TiamatRoar and the incredibly pain saking hard work he puts into it FOR FREE I will defend the guide with my life. I’m not sure if you actually want me to start pointing to references where Konami says some games in Castlevania are not canon and random stuff like that… Weither you believe the plot guide or not is entirely up to you. Both vasili10 and I are contributors of the plot guide. Chances are neither of us would even be here even talking to you about any of this stuff where it not for the plot guide’s existence in the first place, so all props go to TiamatRoar, Saiki, and many others for starting the guide up for there hardwork.
I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong. Shoot, I did that already on this thread and can laugh about it because it goes along with being a human being. Though any questions that come up I do my best to respond since I’m usually around, more than most of the SF Plot Guide regulars (and many that are looooong gone) and sometimes it’s like playing substitute teacher to Saiki, vasili10, TiamatRoar, Siegfried, Golden Hell, Golden Dragon, Clay, and a bunch of other guys to tell you the honest truth. After getting a bunch messages around the net and PMs, sometimes E-Mails and even AIM messages of people asking me stuff like “Is Shun officially Ryu’s brother?” for the hundreth time you can understand if anything linking an Anime to a game tends to urk me. Well, now you can PM vasili10 any future questions, (um, sorry if I’m giving ya more work vas10… ) or if you want I can just ignore any of your threads, it’s not a big deal really.
What’s up with the cursing? I don’t really get that or what your so mad about. I do try my best to be as nice as I possibly can to everybody here at SRK. If I came off as angry at any point that was not my intent and nor was I really angry at any given point on this thread, if you took it that way I apologize. If you don’t care for anything I have to say that’s fine too, you can put me on your ignore list and be done with that. This is all for fun anyways, we are talking about… games and stuff we enjoy… not war, religion or something… No one on this thread agreed with SF Alpha Generations being part of SF’s canon and they just had different ways of saying it. I’m not against imagination or interpretation, neither is the Plot Guide as it has interpretations within it as well. Heck, currently me and Susano-o are going back and forth on a bunch of stuff on another thread regarding SF, KOF on a storlyine thread we don’t agree on probably anything nor are we forcing either one to believe one way or another, it’s all in good fun as there’s room for interpretation on various subjects. Shoot, I imagine that one day Ryu and Chun-Li will get married and have 25 kids but I don’t run around saying it since I can’t back that up. And like I said, if you don’t want me to respond I’ll just ignore your threads, I don’t have a problem with that. Hundreds of threads here at SRK, who knows, maybe we’ll agree on something else somewhere.
I agree with you sano and understand where your coming from but why would I bar you from my threads and interfere with your freedom of expression when I just went on to defend my own, that’s just stupid. You have as much right to say whatever you believe, however when you force your beliefs on others it tends to rub people the wrong way.
I’d recommend letting go of this fictional and misguided concept of canon and just accept each art on its own merit. The major problem with plot guides such as tiamats is that actually ignores sources of information deemed “unoffical” when a large bulk of the understanding and development of the characters comes through the licensed products such as the anime and the udon comics, these things should be included and not excluded in such a guide. This so called process of the refining the story actually has a deterimental effect in my opinion.But if that’s the path you choose, go for it - I wont stop you.
Yea, seriously. The plot guide is shit. Why the hell is there no mention of Charlie being Blanka, Dhalsim being a mad scientist who works for Shadaloo, and E. Honda being Chun-Li’s cameraman in it!?!? :mad: AND WHERE THE FUCK IS RYU’S LITTLE BROTHER SHUN!?
Stupid crappy plotguide. Udon’s comic is the most canon thing EVER but there is not even a single mention of Russian Zangief getting pwned by Ken in the USA Martial Arts tournament, Charlie becoming Shadow and attacking Guile, or Shadaloo having enslaved Blanka and using him as a weapon (because he’s Charlie! Though the comic doesn’t state that part but you know it’s true). Then there’s none of the stuff from any of those other Capcom endorsed Street Fighter medias like Cammy being a freelance assassin ex-Delta Red member that Bison hired to kill Chun-Li’s father or the many times that Zangief has worked for Bison in SEVERAL movies and animated series (as a large bulk of the understanding and development of the characters comes through the licensed products such as the animes and movies and Zangief working for Shadaloo is a consistent factor in many of them!), or again, Charlie being Blanka. This is bullcrap! How could anyone believe in a guide that doesn’t even have something as huge as Cammy and Charlie teaming up with Megaman and Author to stop a bunch of robot terrorists!? What, is this Street Fighter 2010 all over again!? Lame.
Hell, it doesn’t even mention Street Fighter world where a bunch of kids got sucked into their Street Fighter arcade game and Blanka (who’s Charlie) makes a bean sprout grow by urinating on it. And of course, not a single mention of how certain characters have the ability to mutate their appearance into something completely different like Goutetsu and Gouken had to have done for Alpha Generations! I agree. The plot guide is absolute ass.
Charlie is Blanka, dammit. Anyone who says otherwise is interferring with my freedom of expreshun. :mad: And that’s just stupid. I recommend you all realize that everyone has a right to their opinion and thus you start your own religion where you yourself are god and support the entire earth with your six arms you stole from Vishnu (and you make Buddha clean up your pee on the floor with his tongue)! It would be your opinion and you have a right to it so it must be 100% valid even though it makes no sense!
I don’t force my beliefs on others, I’m not exactly sure how you take it that way(it’s kind of impossible in some ways, I can say this is why I believe this no matter how I word things and at the end of the day that’s all I can do) I can say this was in that book or plot guide, you can disagree with it, meh. Nor have I rubbed people the wrong way around here other than you. You clearly do not know who TAS is. This would of been a flame war, he would of told you “Capcom whispered it into my ear so it’s FACT fucktard!” And you’d have 30 pages of nonsense. Oh, he will be back, mwahahahaha…
I love SF and it’s storyline. However, it’s a freaking train wreck. All the SF Plot Guide is trying to is deal with a ton of lemonades and try to give you three tons of lemonade to the best of our ability. Even stuff that’s more unreliable like Wikipedia tries to do the same thing, it’s not easy by any means. Who knows, Capcom is whacky enough to say SFAG retcons everything, there maybe a director’s interview done the road that reveals such. I’m pretty sure people who make Animes or even Studio Udon themselves have to deal with similar headaches when trying to navigate through the storyline and bring it to people, however they can allow themselves a freedom that we can’t and change things around when it’s conveniant for them and we don’t do that to the best of our abilities. The SF Plot Guide is still being updated to this very day, the struggle continues… Um, yeah, and stuff…
Dude there you go again, seriously you are only showing how uneducated you trully are. You actually have no concept of fact and opinion - a fact is an assertion of truth whereas an opinion is merely a statement of perspective.
Street fighter is a work of fiction and by definition its contents can never be fact, that’s why concepts such as canon have no ground. It is a clear and logical paradox. You are attempting to assert truth in make believe. There is no truth in the story. It is not a fact that akuma killed gouken, nor is it a fact that Fei Long admired Bruce Lee. It is a fact, however, that Akiman designed many of the street fighter characters or that Capcom has produced the street fighter series. How can you not see this distinction?
The body of art and stories comprised in street fighter stem from the imagination of a number of writers, each offering perspectives, but never asserting a fact because facts are grounded in reality. Nothing they write about street figher regarding the story is offical, however it is offical that they wrote a story.
Udon’s problem is not in trying to navigate through the storyline, it trying to appease the fans. One of the best ways to do this appears to be admonish and incorporate past works regarding street fighter, not bring “truth”. If you sit there reading a comic and say that didn’t happen or that did happen, then your way off pal.
Even your lemonaide comment didn’t make any sense dude. You said that you have a ton of lemonaide and are trying give us 3 tons of lemonaide. What the hell does that mean?
If nothing is fact, then that still means that none of what happens in the animes is the case with the storyline for the various games and vice versa. After all, for it to be the case otherwise, then what happens in either the games or the animes would have to be fact. Thus it is stupid to assume that just because there is an ancient race in Generations that there is an ancient race in the games and that the storyline in the anime has any bearing on the storyline on any particular game’s story, because the very definition of nothing being fact means that can’t be the case, as then a storyline plot point from either the games or the animes would have to be a fact.
It wasn’t an assumption Tiamat, actually try READING my post. I’m not trying to say that the Generations movie has any bearing of the Street Fighter Zero 2 storyline. In essence i merely raised the issue of what the deal was with the statues on the island were and made the sugguestion that it may have been related to the ancient warriors, in order to see if the anime was actually making reference to previous works. As posted by vasilli, the statues were actually of the Four Deva Kings of Buddhism, thus disconfirming this theory.
You don’t actually know my intentions, so how bout having a coke and and a smile and stop making assumptions as to why I posted this thread in the first place jack.
Pretty simple really. Trying to make the best out of a bad situation is all. Seem impossible? Sure. Just like passing a huge animal through the eye of a needle seems impossible but the Bible tells you that’s how hard it is to get into Heaven. But it’s not saying that it’s impossible to go to Heaven, just that it’s difficult.
Me, uneducated? Lol, that’s funny. Nice job calling me uneducated in the same sentence where you mispelled the word truly. Am I supposed to respond with that with the college degrees I’ve earned, hmm. Meanwhile I haven’t cursed at you once during this entire conversation which shows you I can express myself without doing so, have been outright nice to you, even apologized once and you have thus failed to do so, at all. Just because someone has a different perspective on something there’s no need to insult them.
No, I don’t sit through a comic and say that happened and that didn’t happen, when did I say that? All of the events within that book happen, within that book, there’s no need for me to do so. That’s like reading an Ultimate Spider-Man comic book and saying that this didn’t happen in regular Spider-Man continuity, it’s wrong. Or saying this happened in an Anime, it happened in the game. Understand?
You can dig through Udoneko’s posts if you want. I believe “navigate” the storyline are either his exact words or to that effect(I’ll look up his exact quote if you want to be super anal about it). Yes, they have to appease fans, non fans, people who only played SF2, anyone else they can, every product tries to satisfy their audience and beyond. The SF Plot Guide doesn’t take the luxory of saying, “Well, it’s more conveniant for us to introduce Guile early on for the SF2 fans.” Or “this makes more sense. Let’s say this instead of what Capcom say and let’s make up what Feilong did during SFZ3.” That’s something like what Lantis did with his KOF storyline faq so it could read better, adding tons of stuff to it. No offense to Lantis of course because he himself admits this. The SF Plot Guide does not do this. It relies on official sources, statements from Capcom employees, things of that nature. There are many points in the SF Plot Guide where it will say this was inspired by a manga and so forth. But to go through all of the outside sources in some ways pointless and much easier for the reader to go through himself by just watching these shows if they want to than finding hard to find Japanese sources the majority of people who can’t read Japanese can not find or understand. Not even the SF Eternal Challenge book takes it’s time out to discuss the Animes or Mangas AT ALL. The Marvel Encyclopedias don’t bother telling you that X-23 and Firestar where created for cartoons and then adopted, The DC Encyclopedia doesn’t bother to tell you Harlyquinn was created by the Batman Animated series, if you are fan enough you know this already, just like SF Eternal Challenge doesn’t tell you Karin was created by Masahiko Nakahira in her bio, that’s not what these sources are here for, to deal with endless things inspired by SF, Marvel, DC, etc. or how all of these things in turn influenced their world. There would be no end to it. It’s to discuss what these characters are doing in the world we are discussing, the game’s world or for comics the comic’s world and that’s it.