Alternate inputs I use



My my, it’s been awhile since I’ve posted on here, just too busy /w my summer job.

Anyhow, thought I’d post up some of the inputs I use in matches to improve reliability, shift hitboxes, ease up execution etc. on various things. These are all on stick, sorry no advice for you pad players.

General purpose ultra: d/b+HK+LP x2, u/b+LK+HP

Why? Well firstly, the input is buffered into his sweep. This means during startup he has the lowest possible hitbox, giving you the most time to do AA. It also guarantees you won’t accidentally hit people coming down from srks and the like if you are punishing such. His sweep itself is also a very good poke, and doing this buffer allows you to confirm stuff. I often throw out ultra buffered sweeps during footsies (d/b+HK+LP x2), then if I see they jumped it, focused it, Abel wheel kicked it, etc. etc. I finish the ultra. Why do I use u/b as the final directional? Because this registers as 2 consecutive back inputs (b then u/b), guaranteeing I always do one with correct timing in the heat of the moment.

Reversal ultra: d/b+LP~MP~HP, u/b+LK+LP+MP+HP

Used when punishing things with ultra, the d/b+LP~MP~HP is buffered into blockstun. It’s the absolute fastest way to get a 2 jab input, using the plinking method, and is highly reliable even if your execution is off. It’ll either register as LP, LP+MP, HP or LP, LP+MP+HP or somesuch, but they all count as 2 jabs as long as LP was pressed first. This method improves reliability on punishing things you have to react to quickly, like blanka balls, EX green hand, etc.

Kara ultra: f+3P x2, b+LK+3P

Used when punishing things that require you to delay the ultra rather than reverse it. (assuming your tourney is allowing 3P buttons, which most do)

Double high kick link: f.HK, d+LK~LP, LK tatsu

Plinking method to get 2 LK inputs to hit that link window.

Shoryuken: d/f,d/b,d/f+P

Fast, reliable, and executed from crouching to give you maximum window for AA and also to punish tatsus flying over your head w/o standing up. Using d/b instead of d for the 2nd directional is both easier and faster on the hands.

Shoryuken followup to air-to-air tatsu: d/b,d/f,d/b,d/f+P

If you’re not sure which side you’ll end up on, this covers both (have to do the directionals fast to get the both side coverage).

FADC hadoken combos: QCF+P, f, MP+MK~f

The FA starts the moment you press MP+MK, and your aim is to dash as quickly as possible after that. A dash starts on the second f. Thus by buffering the first f before your FA, you minimize the time to get your dash input after the cancel, and thus give yourself the most time to follow up the combo after the dash.



Been missing your posts and great advice.

Great post, as always.


welcome back muken.
great post. kara-ultra should help my pad game ive been doing an incosistent alternate method



Nice info, very nice advice. I’ve been trying to do Crouch MK -> Ultra but because i play controller (basic PSN) i have alot of trouble doing it fadt enough as Plinking is very unreliable on it.


Hey Muken, I hope you didn’t miss Akuma’s showing at Evo 2009. I remember you advocating the cross-up tatsu tactics long before they began their rise to power over in western competition.

What’re your thoughts on the recent state of SF4 and Akuma?


Haha, yeah I did get out there, but I only made it to the 5th round in my pool, lack of practice for the past couple months hurt me there.

Thanks, I was quite happy to see the crossup tatsus rising in prominence this Evo, I always felt we were missing a lot of potential there. I like that Akuma seems to be moving a bit more towards being a zoning char in competitive play rather than a straight runaway char (a subtle difference, but significant). This is where his true strength lies, he has so many good footsies tools.


While we’re on the subject of shortcuts (welcome back Muken btw) When I’m FADC’ing fireballs, I actually hit MP+MK twice, one with each forward input in the dash. There’s no real strategic use for this, it’s just the interesting galloping motion is better lent to my muscle memory. I do it quite a bit in my [media=youtube]bCfuEXzJ_d0&fmt=22"[/media], so anyone wondering what I’m talking about can check it.

The sweep buffer demon is indeed pretty slick, but the way my fingers are positioned I have a pretty tough time with it.


Yeah, everybody has little random quirks that just work better /w their muscle memory. For example when I do cr.LK cr.LP chain I do the LK as LK~LP for no good reason. It’s just how my fingers remember the timing.

How are your fingers positioned? For the sweep buffer, I use forefinger for LP and ring finger for HK, double tapping both. Then if I want to finish I hit thumb on LK and ring finger on HP.


your vid is great man
but i got problem to do the crounching forward and then fireball
i get instead a srk
the second i cant timed it right to fadc out of the fireball

did the crouning jab link to crounching fierce ??


as always, awesome shit from MuKen.

i also do this.


It’s worth relearning it the way I listed above, because it causes the dash to start a few frames quicker after the cancel. Those few frames allow you to walk a bit after the dash, both increasing the range at which you can combo, and increasing the timing window for hitting various things after the dash.


Great post MuKen going to try these when I get home.


Muken, can I ask about the benefits of cr.HK~Ultra?

I pressume you’re studied up to the advantages of it. I’m comfortable with executing this and have had no luck in picking up cr.MK~Ultra because I use a pad.

As a substitute, I’ve been trying out the cr.HK Kara you’re recommending (Tsuji style, because the thumbs are slow) and a single, Tsuji crouched jab.

This for buffers for the anti air Demon specificly. I got a wave of questions to send your way. Would you know enough of the two to suggest which of them might be the superior option to go with?

Why is it you choose cr.HK over c.MK for the Ultra? (do you actually do so for the anti air property?) as you’re a stick player, I guessed execution would be fine for yourself; but is it because you find cr.HK more comfortable to execute?

In my experience, I find the sweep a mixed bag when evading/trading with jump-ins. The hitbox doesn’t seem nearly as small or evasive as cr.MK or cr.LP and is more open to getting beat out at ranges where the others would safely whiff.

Perhaps the cr.HK hitbox is much more evasive than my suspisions tell me, or there’s a good forward bump provided by the Kara that ould be of greater benefit to the anti air purpose?

I’ve leaned more towards the cr.LP one as my solution because the tiny hitbox of the jab provides even lesser odds of trading with jump attacks dude to the low and short hitbox; (but maybe that’s not the case) and if I happen to miss-input the Ultra with it, I have pretty much no lag to be punished on.

What’s your take on the two for the ideal anti air Ultra buffer?


I believe they are equivalent for AA demon purposes (though of course we can’t be sure since sf4 wasn’t nice enough to provide us with a hitbox display like HDR).

I did some pretty thorough practice with beating various jump-ins using cr.MK or cr.HK alone with no demon (I believe I made a thread about it somewhere long ago). My experience was the cr.MK was indeed better, but not because of smaller hit boxes. Rather, because of earlier/larger attack boxes, very often the cr.HK would duck the jump-in, but also miss the opponent, resulting in mutual whiff.

Thus, when the normal is only being used to evade so you can buffer your ultra, both should work equally well. The purpose of the normal is only to make Akuma make himself even lower to hit than crouching, and it seems to me both cr.MK and cr.HK are equally hard-to-hit moves. The cr.MK seems to stay low longer than cr.HK, but that’s irrelevant since either one is going to be cancelled to ultra before it stops ducking. I would not use cr.LP for AA unless you are really having trouble doing anything else on the pad, as cr.LP doesn’t make Akuma get any lower than normal crouching.

The reason I use cr.HK is just habit. I’m already used to cr.HK buffering my ultras because it’s such a fantastic footsies tool, so I just use the same method to AA demon. But cr.MK should work just as well.


So cr.HK ducks lower than cr.LP, yeah?

I’ll take that advice on board and use cr.HK as that’s easy enough for me. Though in the short term, I’ll want to be accommodating them both I think; as my experience with them isn’t vast and I still miss the Ultra on its cue a few times, so the lacking whiff lag will be a fallback when I’m not trusting it.


Yeah, it’s a tossup between HK and MK, but both are definitely lower than LP.


When I buffer demon in c.MK for instance, middle finger is assigned to LP, where as index finger is assigned to MK. I don’t use my thumb at all in play, so what I end up using for HK is my pinky, since that always rests on HP anyway.

:lp: = Middle :mp: = Ring :hp: = Pinky
:lk: = Index

Make sure you’re holding down when doing the c.MK, straight down, not down/forward. If you want it might be easier if you hold down/back, for instance when you’re walking up and immediately go into c.MK. Also, yes c.LP links to s.HP, c.MP -> s.HP is an even stronger (yet harder) link.


Muken, nice to have back with us man, even if it’s just a short visit.
I’m going to have to try the AA Sweep into Ultra.

I have no problem using the Sweep into Ultra to beat their FA, but never tried it as an AA.

Thanks for the tip.


I have a few problems with HADO FADC HK.
I’m not very consistent and 50% of the time, the HK is blocked. I use the lp hado fyi.
So, i’m not sure why this happens. I used to cancel with 6, 6+mk+mp. Tried with 6, 6+ mp +mk, too and its still inconsistent.
I also tried it with 236 + lp (hold 6), 6 +mp+mk. it can work too, but still a lot of blocked HK…
I have two main guess about what’s happening :

  1. i hit HK too late, so i’m Plinking it to increase the chance but with no luck. Can’t do it 100%
  2. You have to cancel the hado at a specific time. not too soon, not too late.

Do you guys know something that can improve that ?


Thanks for the brilliant post…

One thing i was wondering abou thte Hado FADC. I am sure that the f in the QCF already buffers the first f of the FADC, meaning you only have to input MP+MK~f to do the FADC. I’ve tried this alot in training and am sure it works.

Is there added benefit to putting the extra f in there ??