Am I crazy, or is there someone else out there encouraged by the nerf?

phoenix-wright

#1

First off, let me give a little background info on my PW history. When Ultimate was first announced, I, like many other people were extremely excited for PW, and when he was revealed, that excitement grew. I never thought of him as an assist character, I always thought of him as a point character, a little bit of a game within a game, and an entirely new take on a MVC character design. I remember hearing something about invincible assists, yadda yadda, but when I first got the game, I didn’t know which assist was invincible, and for some reason I didn’t really care. I almost always used “get em missile” for unblockable setups during the couple weeks of ultimate, even after finding out how amazing the other 2 were, and how missile was kinda bad in comparison. I do admit that after a while I started solely using break the witness, but I rarely found myself using it when tagged out in turnabout mode. I’d kinda forget about it, and that’s just sorta how I’ve always been with assists, I don’t use them as often as most people do, and I know that I probably hurt myself a lot because of it, and that’s where my feelings on the PW nerf come in.

When I first heard about the nerf, I was upset, I couldn’t believe they would nerf a character that is definately mid-bottom tier, if not straight up bottom. Even with that assist as good as it was, I couldn’t imagine anybody finding reason to complain about it, and every other reason that every other PW player is upset. The nerf just didn’t make sense, and didn’t seem fair after Capcom themselves hyped the assist itself up so much. However as of yesterday, I have gotten an entirely new outlook on it, I admit I haven’t played PW much in the last couple weeks, and had been losing a lot of desire to play him lately, I was sick of his counter-intuitive tools, and strings of bad evidence while a wolverine/wesker are trying to tear me apart. But all of a sudden, I feel like I want to play PW more than ever, and for the first time I feel like the character may have a real chance in this game. I feel like the nerf makes it obvious that turnabout mode is no longer the goal, there just is no reason left to try and force the issue of turnabout, when that mode doesn’t have the benefits to make it worthwhile anymore. Of course, if you get a chance to get it, go for it, but that’s not the priority anymore, and this has me very excited. I am sorry if this post was kinda hard to understand/poorly written, as I have a lot of trouble taking thoughts and putting them into coherent sentences for other people to understand. But please, if you understand where I’m coming from, let me know, we should be excited about this, that assist was kinda forcing us to cripple the character, by focusing on TM, instead of taking full advantage of courtroom mode, and focusing on that.

If I’m crazy, let me know, if you wanna talk shit, go ahead, I am genuinely excited about this character again, and truly think this nerf will help us in the long run (even though in the long run, yes, that assist would still help, but it’s forcing a new mindset on us).


#2

It’s not being encouraged by the nerf. It’s understanding from before the nerf happened that the entire point of a character could never be to rush to a single mode just to tag out and use the assist (Hsien-Ko gold mode, anyone?). That’s horrible design and judging by the amount of work that went into Wright, that was never the intention. Nerf hurts, but not as much as people think. And disagree on TM not being worthwhile anymore, you still get a pressure assist that wall bounces (one of the few assists that wall bounce) and a god-like shield in Paper Work Storm, plus the general god-mode functionality, which wasn’t nerfed at all.


#3

Ya, this is pretty much what I’m thinking. It would have been nice if they could’ve figured out another way to change the assist, instead of outright killing it from its original design. I know TM has benefits, I’m not saying the mode is garbage now, I’m just saying it’s not as important as we all thought it was, ya you can do a ton of damage, ya the assists ARE better, but it’s not the overbearing priority as people were treating it, anymore. Like I said, if you can get it, then get it, but I don’t think we should be risking raw tags, and sacrificing damage, just to get into turnabout mode anymore, it’s too short, and the keepaway tools, while amazing (sometimes), are counter-intuitive to the whole mode. And I honestly feel that missile is the superior assist now, it’s basically a low hitting drones, and you can practically hit unblockables on accident when you call it out.


#4

I hear Missile is slow though. Opponent can just up-back when you call it and avoid the un-blockable completely. I’m thinking the best part about it is it’s like Maya H (if it stays out regardless of Wright getting hit or not). It’s on the screen, you control the ground. And yeah, I always thought putting together a really good set of evidence was more important than rushing turnabout. Once turnabout ends (if you don’t win in it or tag out) you lose 3 pieces of evidence that make Wright’s zoning game effective (some really stupid sets are possible, too). Then you have to play shitty Investigation Wright with no evidence for Trial and only paper for mid/long range. =/


#5

I’m not entirely sure if missile stays out if Wright gets hit, but I do know that because it’s so slow, I use it to my advantage. When using Zero, or Dormammu, I’ll call it right before I super jump, then I swoop over the them in whatever way works for the char. im using, then hit them with a high, it’s pretty easy to time, and because it’s so slow, you don’t use it like you would wesker gunshot assist, you can delay it so they don’t even realize an unblockable is coming. It has its ups and downs because of its speed, but I really like it because of the way I can come in so late and still get an unblockable.

EDIT: Actually, Ghost Rider could get really easy unblockables with missile…hmmmm, I may have to speed up my Ghost Rider training, and develop a sick long range team with him Wright and Dormammu.


#6

Sounds good. You need to see if it stays out if Wright gets hit though. Otherwise, a beam when you call it and super jump could easily mess up the set-up.


#7

I see what your saying, this nerf makes PW players play him more. I’ll admit that once I reached this final mode I would switch him out for Dante and start using the assist to blow people up.


#8

I pretty much rushed turnabout and tagged him out and played really defensive so I could blow people up with the turnabout assist before the nerf. Now instead I rush down while backed up by the PW assist. So pretty much the nerf made my playstyle do a complete 180.


#9

To be honest I’m not entirely sure what my gameplan is because I keep changing it up now. Sometimes PW is point, sometimes hes 2nd. Sometimes It’s Missile Assist, other times it’s BTW/Paperwork. Sometimes I just go for evidence, other times I go for resets/combos. I’m not having a horrible time though. Of course I’m not doing as successful as I was before with PW but I’m still enjoying it.

My biggest problem is when I get into TB mode. I get the combo off of the Bride to Turnabout, and then I generally just cannot get in because the opponent is just holding up+back. In these situations I don’t know what to do. Putting him as anchor for XF3 only works with either a lot of meter or if the opponent doesn’t have XF, otherwise it’s a wasted effort. If I keep him on point, I feel like if I can’t get in that I’m wasting all the effort of getting to TB mode. And honestly, it’s spooky for me in TB mode. I feel like if I get hit once that I’m screwed, and since people aren’t afraid of TB PW now they’re gonna be rushing down a lot more.

But whatever. I love PW and I will continue to play him.


#10

Why not just chip people holding up+back to death (Turnabout or no)? He is primarily a zoning character, after all. >_>


#11

This. I have had a couple matches today where all I did was keepaway with evidence projectiles (i got the phone luckily), while in trial mode. At the very end of the match I landed an objection, but i didn’t get to do much in it cause the dude was about dead. Granted, the person I was playing against was fairly awful, but I seem to have a ton of fun with him, once I get a couple pieces of evidence to zone with. He really becomes infinitely better in trial mode, and while yes, it’s a total pain in the ass to worry about switching back and forth all the time, this is a huge aspect to his game. Basically, play the entire round in trial mode, and only when you get time/enough space, switch to investigation to get as much evidence as possible, then swap back. This is really hard for me, but I’m enjoying learning it.


#12

If they are in the corner, you can do an air forward throw and combo off of j.:h:. If they are midscreen, you’ll have to do an air back throw or else j.:h: won’t connect. I made a video that shows both the midscreen combo and the corner combo, but it seems no one has watched it yet >__> I’ll just repost it in the combo thread.


#13

The issue with missile is that, unlike other beam assists which come out from the assist character, it’s a beam assist that always starts at the other end of the screen. Therefore the timing can be especially strange when setting up unblockables since it’s solely dependent on where you are on the screen. That’s why it’s pretty much impossible to OTG with it. It’s definitely a unique assist, but as an OTG i think it’s too unreliable (except maybe midscreen).

When your point character’s back is so far away from the edge of the screen, it’s probably way too easy to avoid. With your back on the way, it could be more of a surprise. In the end, because the beam itself is constant and not reliant on the position of your point character, it’s incredibly difficult to use consistently. Funny how consistency in a fairly random character is also pretty tough to utilize well.


#14

Without XF the chip is decent but not enough, but generally people will wait until there is only 1 character left on their team to use it. However if they already used XF, Turnabout PW can easily chip a whole team (kinda depends on the matchup) in XF3 as long as he has the cell phone, or a good combination of evidence (knife, vase, photo/camera).


#15

Even though I wanted to play Wright like that, I felt in love with trial mode too much. I love recking with trial.


#16

Man, this place is pretty dead. That bad, huh.


#17

All the top players say he’s bad, so the masses follow suit. It happens.


#18

Because no one was mentally able enough to come to that completely east bumble fuck conclusion by themselves. Noooope, no one at all.

Why are you such a condescending cunt on the issue, honest question.


#19
  1. Cuz I can be (go Internet, I guess).
  2. Writing off a character just because a lot of players say “lol sucks” (early in the game’s life cycle, btw) is something masses do. People like being lazy. He could have something, but as long as people go “why bother”, it will never be found out.

#20

Thing is though he’s downright terrible. I’ve come to terms with the assist nerf, but they virtually gave him nothing to work with to offset it. If they made his cr.H in turnabout mode hit low like it deceptively looks, then that would’ve been great for then he would have a solid mixup.

All investigation mode has is maya. All trial mode has is invincible startup hyper, at most situational evidence. And all turnabout has is the level 3. If you’re playing someone that knows how to deal with turnabout then all they have to do is avoid as much evidence as they can, block high, pushblock, and tech an occasional air throw.

He’s ass tier for the sole reason that they start you off in investigation mode where his only tool is maya. With the right evidence setup the most I’ll give him is right in the center of mid tier, and that can honestly can be pushing it. He has no range, below average movement, situational projectiles, and a terrible high/low mixup game in his best mode. Yes you can call the maya hyper for the 1 frame high/low, but that requires you to:
1: Time the air finger a frame after maya’s last hit so you get the groundbounce
2: Actually catch them with the hyper when they’re on the floor

^ Which at best has a slim chance of happening against someone who knows what they’re doing.

As for right now, I’m not gonna lie if you’re facing someone that has only one top tier character on their team, then a wright team may stand a chance. If they’re rocking wesk/dorm/doom then don’t handicap yourself; it’s basically a 3v2 match.