Amaterasu matchup discussion

amaterasu

#1

I commonly hear that Ammy has no bad match-up (other than Dark Phoenix; everyone is at a disadvantage here). I think so too. What do you think? List any character that you’ve had trouble with or feel that Ammy is at a disadvantage against.

As an Ammy player myself, this is my opinion on some of the character match-ups (assuming that you aren’t blown-up when coming in and vice- versa):

Wolverine: Eww Logan. I’ve heard from commentators in videos that you should either be in his face or 3/4’s of the screen away. I like that advice. The Solar Flare counter is insane against his rushdown but his “heterosexual life partner” Akuma isn’t far away since you’re most likely to fight Logan on point or in the second spot. Using the counter at the wrong time could mean dead dog. Vale of Mist interferes with his combos pretty well though. The matchup is about 50/50 IMO.

She-Hulk: Like Logan she comes with plenty of friends but unlike Logan, she doesn’t have Berserker Slash. She can’t slide under Cold Star so that helps. Footsies with her isn’t recommended unless Ammy’s foot is QCF+L with the sword. A good match-up for Ammy.

Magneto: He can hit a crouching dog with an overhead! That’s surprising. Not a terrible match-up if you’re on the offensive but it can suck trying to block him. I like me some Solar Flare here to open him up when he’s triangle jumping like crazy.

Dante: I don’t think it’s a bad matchup if you’re in sword. Ammy does have the longest sword in the game after all. Dante’s sword normals kind of beat everything that Reflector Ammy has. If you’re on the defensive, I prefer sitting back until I get the chance to open him up with a Solar Flare counter or a faster normal. I haven’t tested this out but I think the Hammer will trigger the counter if the opposing Dante likes doing that.

Sentinel: Isn’t Ammy infamous for destroying robots? Zoning him out is ridiculously easy and so is punishing his slow normals. Instant overheads just destroy him. Just don’t get hit.

Wesker: A great match-up for Ammy. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe forward gunshot misses Ammy even while standing. That kind of kills his game. He also doesn’t have good air options. Rhino Charge does kinda of kill her though but as long as you aren’t mindlessly rushing him down, that shouldn’t be a problem.

Dark Phoenix: The only bad matchup in my opinion. She does have more options than most of the cast. Random Okami Shuffle could work. Vale of Mist is one of the best ways to run down XF3. XF + Lv. 3 is an option to random her out in the middle of all those feathers. Even then, I don’t think Ammy can get a clean hit on DP easily.

Zero: I keep hearing that this is a bad matchup and that his normals beat Ammy’s. Then the glaive comes out and makes him kiss the ground. If your blocking isn’t up to snuff then I can see why people might think that Zero beats Ammy. I’ve been opened up plenty of times by Zero myself (it’s what he’s good at). It’s not a bad match-up by any means.

Dormammu: This one is actually scary. Once again, not a bad match-up but it’s tough getting in. Between Liberation, Purification and Dark Hole, Dormammu can keep you out. Shooting him isn’t a great idea either since you can get blown up from wherever you’re standing. Flame carpet is annoying. Ammy’s only counter to Stalking Flare is to Okami Shuffle on reaction (unless the ball eats all the durability points on the fire; haven’t seen it myself actually) or hitting him if the player decides to cross you up with the ball. I just try my best to get in at that point or try to make my opponent call the wrong Purification.

If Dormammu is rushing down, it becomes much easier to deal with. I treat him like a slower Magneto at that point. You still have to be careful but at least you aren’t dealing with flame carpet.

Amaterasu: OG Ammy wins hand down.

On a serious note, out of all the top-tier mirrors I’ve seen, Ammy vs. Ammy is the rarest but it’s always fun to watch. I just play the opposite game that the opponent is playing unless they like to f+HHHHH. I show them the counter.

Amaterasu is my favorite character in this game and I might come off a bit biased but these are the experiences I’ve had playing against those characters. I look forward to hearing your opinions.


#2

At least you respect dorm lol
If i use Wesker and i catch Ammy or Zero 7/10 times i will xfactor kill don’t want there trouble, wesker xfactor any level kill them with abcs gun team super. Ammy as more option than 90% of the cast against pheonix.


#3

I respect all members of the cast haha.

Everyone I’ve seen in a tournament match will do everything in their power to K.O Ammy in one combo. The only other characters I see generate more hate than Ammy is Phoenix, Magneto and Wolverine. It’s animal cruelty at it’s finest lol.


#4

Viper wrecks Ammy sideways. In practice its somewhere around 7-3, in theory (where the viper player has flawless execution), it is 10-0.


#5

I… Have not found this to be the case. Although, it is definitely in Viper’s advantage, a sufficiently airborne Amaterasu has many answers to Viper’s tools.

I feel that Trish has a bit of an advantage against Amaterasu, also.

If Wolverine gets in on you, it becomes extremely difficult, since the counter is a 50/50 at best against his high/low mixup and berserker claw shenanigans will likely have the assist hit first, meaning no counter there. But at the same time, if you hit him once, he might just die, and he just can’t safely approach you if you’re already in sword. The matchup really depends on who gets the first offense.

p.s. Mags is free, you suckas need to learn to block


#6

I really depends on the quality of the viper player, if you have on that knows her stuff, it’s really bad. The rule of thumb, is that any wide character get’s blown up by Viper. Seismo’s wreck most of the cast, but wide characters have it even worse than normal.

That’s the short version anyways.


#7

any good zoning character that has a counter to ammy’s solar flare H is a bad matchup imo like dormammu, deadpool and trish.

Against dormammu its hard to get in especially if they have that flame carpet out, also he has a teleport + beam super so solar flare H is unsafe. Same thing with deadpool except he’s even harder to catch because he’s always on the move while playing keepaway. Trish because she can just stay in the air for a long amount of time and its hard to get in through all those traps and projectiles, solar flare doesnt work here either because you cant rly tell if there’s a projectile coming or a dive kick.

If you think about it, solar flare aside ammy can get zoned out pretty easily. She has no teleport, her mobility is average and cold star is pretty useless against most zoning characters. Her counter is her only good defence against projectiles but its not very safe and can be countered if the other player knows what they’re doing.


#8

No matchup is 10-0 unless one player can’t move for some reason.


#9

You are… Oh my god. Where do you live I need to money match you.


#10

I see that you’re Viper player. I give props to you for using her. I love her as a character but I don’t have the hands for it. I haven’t actually played against a Viper, let alone a good one. Now that I think about it, she has insane rushdown options and Seismo does stop a good portion of the cast. Viper has some of the best mind-games I’ve seen from an MvC3 character.

BUT I refuse to believe that “Viper wrecks Ammy” sideways. Disadvantage yes, but 10-0? Seismo is great for zoning and blowing up assists but the way you make it sound, it’s inescapable which is clearly not the case. Otherwise, Viper would have Logan-like showings in top 8’s.

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Granted it’s not the greatest example but as you know, good C. Viper vs. anything isn’t exactly common.

MarlinPie had the option to “blow Ammy up with Seismos” but he went in instead. It could be because of his playstyle or the fact that he recognizes that Ammy can get in on Viper. Hell, when MarlinPie was spamming seismo, Ryu was creeping in and he does the fastest, most consistent seismo cancels in the country. I don’t wanna talk about what happens to Viper under Vale of Mist but the general rule is to not press buttons. There are holes in Viper’s insane rushdown and zoning just like there are holes in Ammy’s game.

You did get me thinking about one thing though. Ammy? Wide? That’s cold. Sort of explains her weird hitbox since she curls up when she gets hit though.

Peekaboo and hopscotch are annoying and her dive kick is extremely annoying but peekaboo is destroyable though and if they get too comfortable dive-kicking, an Izuna drop convinces Trish to tone it down from my experience.

I agree on Wolverine and I probably do need to learn how to block haha.

Dormammu maybe. I explained my experience with Trish above.

Deadpool? Ammy crouches under Trigger Happy and the rest of his bullets and looks at him funny. He can’t exactly keep her out once he reaches a corner either. Cold Star is great against characters whose projectiles and beams she can crouch under. Solar Flare is only good against Arthur and Chris since their game is heavily reliant on projectiles and their hypers aren’t fast. Plus Solar Flare comes out in 3 frames IIRC.


#11

ammy cant crouch under the low trigger happy, dont forget that deadpool can fire them off in different angles.


#12

You can’t crouch L trigger happy, and he can easily escape the corner, even though he is perfectly capable of fighting back.


#13

It’s only 10-0 in theory land, not in reality. That’s because in theory land, Viper can lock the dog in guard stun and chip her out, however, this isn’t happening in a real match.

It’s probably 7-3, the dog has a hard time getting in, staying in, and killing viper. Especially since one grab, or EX siesmo and she’s dead. Ammy can keep Viper out okay, but Viper wins the long range battle so this isn’t the best option. Every single thing in this matchup is slanted in Viper’s favor, and on top of that Seimos are better against Ammy than a normal character because of her hitbox.

Don’t get me wrong, Ammy is a very good character with some of the best matcups in the game, but this is Marvel, someone screws up or makes one good read and all the matchup theory in the world goes out the window.

As for the MarlinPie video… an interesting thing happened there. Vipers 2A and 2C(what Marlin used), wiff on the Dog “sometimes”. I assume it’s because of Ammy’s idle animation, and it can also happen mid combo seemingly at random. This is why it’s usually advised to stick with 5A>2B>236A with Viper vs Ammy. So in short, it was one mistake, ammy got in, and burned Xfactor because that wasn’t likely to happen again (and because Viper is MarlinPie’s scariest character. In the other two rounds, Viper didn’t even meet Ammy and got hit by Ryu… It’s Mahvel Baby! Therfore one screw up and you die…


#14

Oops. I forgot about that. I wondered why I wasn’t clipped as much when trying to get in. My Deadpool opponent switches between standing and crouching bullets when Ammy’s out which is probably why I get clipped occasionally when jumping.

I am perfectly aware that Deadpool can escape the corner easily and I’ve seen and experienced the damage that Deadpool can bring to the table. For me, a combination of patience and using Solar Flare when he gets too comfortable spamming trigger happy beats Deadpool. The sword also helps with stopping cornered zoners from escaping with the jump-crushing air H. I don’t actually fear Deadpool’s zoning game. His rushdown scares me more than his zoning and that’s solved like any other non-Wolverine rushdown: blocking right and punishing a bad attack.

Crossover counter. If what you say is true, a “thinner” character will have a better time against Viper. (The other members on my current team are Dante and Wesker if you must know). Seismo doesn’t go too high either. If you aren’t actively landing hits, any options with EX attacks will run out eventually. 10-0 is a hell no.

I can’t see anything other than Seismo slanting anything in Viper’s favor. Ammy is more likely to grab than Viper. One bad seismo from Viper means she has a sword or a reflector in her chest. From what I’ve been seeing, the sky about Viper’s head is the best way to approach.

I will say this: a good Viper has rushdown capabilities of Logan if not better combined with the ability to zone but hyper-aggression has its flaws. Ammy might not have any invincible moves but her fast normals make up for it. I’d say Viper has the advantage but the matchup is only 6-4 on a bad day IMO.

I know how Marvel is played. Matchup theory is usually thrown out the window during the chaos that MvC games bring but its good to know who’s capable of what. Plus, where else am I going to fight (and usually beat) Marvel’s greatest heroes/villains with a wolf? >.>


#15

Couldn’t someone just pushblock Viper’s siesmos to escape that blockstring?


#16

It isn’t 10-0 at all, that’s just the theory viper, it’s probably 7-3 (imo).

  1. EX siesmo is advantage on block, it doesn’t matter whether she hits you or not. If you get touched, you’re going to eat a mixup, if you don’t block it, you die.
    2)Yes the siesmo doesn’t go too high, this is why Viper has her bad matchups (Zero, Trish, Phoenix, etc). So yes, ammy has a hard time jumping over them, but she can do it. But what do you do at that point exactly? Super jumping across the screen at somebody ranges from suicidal to useless.

The reason I think it’s 7-3 is that because of how Vipers tools relate to Ammy’s. Ammy has to take huge and easy to counter risks to get in and get a hit, and if she fails in any of those risks, she dies.

We actually discussed this on the viper boards a couple months ago ago, so if you want to read the other side of the discussion you could look it up.

Fat characters can’t escape perfect Siesmo>FADC>Siesmo, or Siesmo>FADC>2B>siesmo. The reason it’s impractical is that it’s hard as shit to keep doing, and requires as tinge of guesswork. But is a perfect blockstring, so any touch can theoreticly end it for Ammy, hit or no, thus 10-0. It’s not actually happening in any real match ever. The matchup is only 10-0 in THEORY LAND.


#17

Still asking where you live

Still interested in a money match


#18

Don’t really need to go to dorm IMO. I don’t think it’s a bad match at all if you’re actually abusing power slash. You can dash/stop through pillars. H power slash stops teleport mixups above you. This really depends on how the dorm player plays honestly. You can lame out a rushdown dorm and you can get around lame stuff dorm does.

Trish isn’t hard at all. counter kills anyone who does constant random dive kicking. Shuffle kill those who try to constantly cancel dive kick>any trap/flight. L Voltage goes over Ammy. B and C voltages are risky as hell to do from anywhere on the screen unless she has meter to stop it early. (which is still not in her favor) Trish is forced to rush ammy down.

Wolverine is another not hard IMO. stay at mid/far range, put out L power slash and outzone his ass. He cant beserker slash with power slash out. counter any random dive kick that isn’t covered with an assist. okami shuffle anytime he tries to call an assist from full/mid screen to help him get in. throw out slowdown super if you have to. It’s just a matter of getting your space so wolvie doesn’t get a throw into TOD.


#19

The character is designed to be fully capable of offense and defense even against entire teams without assists. That’s why she feels like she doesn’t have a bad matchup. She’s not really supposed to.


#20

let me get this straight, what you’re saying is that a character who has a teleport, 8 way air dash, multiple durable projectiles and a beam hyper can be lamed out with with power slash, but a character like ammy who has nothing but a mediocre air dash can get around dormammu’s shenanigans just fine? that doesnt make much sense tbh, while power slash can be useful against teleports, the main problem against dormammu is getting in against his zoning not the other way around. Once dormammu has flame carpet out, there are very limited amount of ways for ammy to get in, mainly ammy players use air dashing which is very easy to stop using purification or AA normals (and dormammu has several good ones)

And unless its from full screen counter doesnt work at all against trish, i dont know who you play against but the majority of trish players i face constantly jump and mix up projectiles with dive kicks so counters are very unsafe. Okami shuffle is not a very good solution because you just burned a meter without gaining any and it doesnt rly do a lot of damage, it doesnt even put you in a good position for a mix up after its done so this is more of a temporary solution. And lets not forget that okami shuffle has slow start up, if theres a trish player over you throwing out projectiles/dive kicks and you tried using okami shuffle, there’s a good chance that you’ll get hit.