Ammy help

amaterasu

#1

So I used to be really confident with Ammy (especially in Vanilla), but for some reason I feel like I can’t do anything with her anymore. Not sure if it’s because I got worse or if everyone got better or combination of both (which is most likely), but my Ammy is easily my worst character and the weakest link on my team. It’s a really awful feeling when you start getting worse with a character instead of improving ;(

My time is really constricted nowadays so I need to really use what little training time I have wisely. With that said, I am here to ask for help. Here’s my team:

Doom (Plasma Beam) Ammy (Cold Star) Strider (Vajra)

My Ammy has lots of problems, including:

  • relying too much on counters during Solar Flare
  • too much Paper L and not enough Paper M/H
  • too much super jumping
  • too much airdash forward, which speaks more to my bad habit of playing autopilot
  • my combos suck
  • not enough Ammy/Strider stuff

To be honest, I don’t even know what my bread and butter for Ammy is anymore. I used to do (Solar Flare) a bunch of H into launch, sj. M xx change Glaive, sj. M xx headbutt dive thing, fall with charged H, land, fully charged qcf+L, regular qcf+L xx Shuffle. The problem with this combo is that if you don’t time the falling correctly (which is about 80% of the time for me now), you only get one qcf+L into super, which isn’t very good.

I also suck at Ammy X-Factor combos. In level 3 I can barely do the Glaive infinite, but in level 2 I’ll drop it every time. Granted if I practiced these combos more I’d probably be better at hitting them, but realistically I think I need to find something easier and more reliable for the time being.

Ideas I have:

  • looking to make up a reset using Ammy/Strider where I get hitstun deterioration high enough (e.g. after ground bounce), then do something like st. M + Vajra assist into f+H, which would cause Ammy to cross under while opponent recovers into Vajra hard knockdown, follow with Glaive into otg etc. Just haven’t sat down and experimented with it.

  • need to make up a combo with Doom beam assist. I know MarlinPie does a basic one of like ground combo, launch, whatever into headbutt down, relaunch, flying screen, Glaive otg into Plasma Beam into air qcf+S xx Shuffle. I’ve never tried it. Is it any good?

  • some sort of combo ending in Glaive f+H H H H + Plasma Beam

  • some sort of combo ending with otg Glaive dive move xx change Beads, f+H H H H H + Plasma Beam

I have to admit that when I actually do practice stuff in training mode, it’s usually not Ammy stuff. I’ve put in a lot of focus into Strider and Doom this year but my Ammy obviously hasn’t been able to keep up. I love Ammy; she’s probably my favorite MvC3 character design-wise and prob my 3rd favorite character in the game (4th and 5th being Phoenix and Jill!). I don’t plan on dropping her and I doubt I have time to pick up a new character for my A-team, so I really need to work on my Ammy!

I want to use this thread as a way to keep track of my own Ammy progress with the help of the knowledgeable SRK Ammy forum posters. I’d also like to keep track of any ideas I might have, so maybe someone else reading can benefit as well.To start things off, I read every once in awhile forum posters complaining about tournament players not doing optimal combos, Ammy being no exception. What’s optimal for my team?

Also if anyone has any questions, I’ll do my best to answer. But keep in mind my Ammy sucks!

Clock


#2

It’s great to hear that you’re trying to make Ammy work. You were one of the few players still repping her when UMvC3 came out and everyone was doubting her capabilities.

A couple of comments as far as combos go:

  • Off of a counter, you can air-dash forward j.L, j.H (or just j.H in the corner), land and continue your combo from there. No need to use the Glaive Dive to OTG (and therefore wasting her precious ground bounce.) Proof of concept in the corner (credit to Zak Bennett for the combo and Honzo Gonzo for the video):
    [media=youtube]B-RD1QQaasM[/media]

  • The XF3 infinite is by far the most efficient way for Ammy to kill people in XF. Most of her gameplan in XF3 is turning any touch and throw into that infinite to conserve meter and XF3 time. The gameplan in XF2 is sort of the same except you should spend a meter on Okami Shuffle to kill since that infinite is more of a loop now.

Here’s Honzo Gonzo’s video of solo Ammy combos. This should help you on your way to developing combos with your own team. It also contains XF1 and XF2 combos should you need them.
[media=youtube]MRshNfeaDQQ[/media]

I’m sure there’s more for me to say but I can’t think of it right now. I look forward to seeing your progress. I hope this helps.


#3

Oh sick, will try this stuff out. Thanks for the reply Yaz!

Clock


#4

No problem. It’s the least I could do for the guy who helped make the UMvC3 Guide.

Just come back with progress and any sweet Ammy/Doom combos. I’ve been tagging/DHC’ing in Ammy for more troublesome match-ups when my point goes down and I’m not too confident in my TAC combos.


#5

I don’t have enough time to elaborate on what you call ‘habits’ but I can understand why you’re having more trouble with her. Players have simply learned how to fight her. She’s kind of dipping through the tiers and becoming mostly an anchor character. I didn’t use to play her anchor but I switched… The low health and damage is too much of a liability.

But yes, players have mostly learned how to deal with her approaches, and she can’t braindead airdash in there like Nova, or vanilla Ammy. So no, you haven’t gotten worse with her :stuck_out_tongue:

Quick tools that I feel Ammy players don’t use enough that you should look into:

  • Downforward Airdash: most people react to a box dash by jumping back to airgrab it. Alot of people will do the same thing to downforward AD, except you’ll land shortly after doing it (minimizing the risk) and the momentum you gain will but you right below most opponents which will allow air to airs, airgrabs, our counter setups. I do this a lot with Task’s projectile assist.

  • Heavy Paper: Places a power slash right above your head… In a one on one situation, just sitting beneath one of these can be very effective.

  • Crouching Med. delay Forward H: I guess this wouldn’t really be a tool, but it’s a good way to apply pressure. If you get pushblocked, instead of getting her standing H, you’ll get her far reaching forward H for a nice frame trap. If you’re not pushblocked, the delay should be long enough to set up a nice throw.

I typed this out real quick… Hope it makes sense!


#6

Haven’t seen you on the Ammy boards lately, Moons. :open_mouth:

I’m not sure how to approach this statement. On the one hand, Ammy isn’t exactly a common character. I can count on two hands the number of known players with decent Dogs (all IMO). On the other hand, I sort of agree with that statement… sort of.

Granted, if I had the competition you had in your training group, I’d doubt my Dog as well. >__>


#7

I probably should’ve said how to fight her better. She’s underplayed so a lot of people will get hit with things they shouldn’t. I get murdered by Ammy lol.

Edit: Yeah, haven’t been around in a while :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

I’ve been hesitant to post in this thread, since I fought Clock at evo but my neuropathy was really acting up and I ended up dropping literally everything I went for, I did not so much as complete even one combo and my neutral game was ass. I’m so unhappy with my play in that match, I looked like a total scrub in front of everyone and I mean I know I’m not a top player but god, I’m not THAT bad… After that match, I went over to where soul calibur was starting and I just forfeited my bracket, 'cause I knew I just couldn’t play in that state, lol. But basically I’m afraid of being viewed as a fool after having lost so badly? Still, I feel compelled at this point~

Echoing moons in tridash stuff, but assistless this can be pretty difficult to set up, and even if she’s not on anchor (for instance, if you happen to have strider on anchor) you can’t just always go for it. You can jump cancel reflector H into it, which can be good but the opponent will usually want to advancing guard that which mucks it up. Blocking an assist is another good way but you sort of lack a good assist to keep them locked down, vajra and beam are just single hits… Well, there’s always after predicting their ground tech on knockdown. you can put it over them as they wake up.

But, also…

I know this is late. Maybe you won’t see it. But, it’s something I just felt like doing. I think it’s pretty consistent. (Well, maybe when my neuropathy isn’t incapacitating me with pain, anyway~)

[media=youtube]oxFyQRzeVCs[/media]

Obviously you don’t have to super after doom beam, you can go for at reset shenanigans or meterless hard knockdown off of more 6H, but the meter happened to work out that I thought supering was the coolest thing to display there. You can actually do the first combo when backed against a corner but It’d probably be more worthwhile in that case to not combo into doom beam since super’s all you can really get after it from the massive pushback, as the last 6H hits pretty far away. Instead, probably better to after midscreen 6H ender use it to try to get them to block on wakeup and do more mixup.

Midscreen, you have to dash to get 2H S after the Vajra > Charged Thunder Edge, otherwise the S will whiff, but it’s easy to do so whatever

air weapon change to head charge doesn’t work on rocket raccoon but oh well


#9

mash hella shit


#10

inc rambling

Ok so unfortunately I’ve played marvel zero times since I posted this (which was 2 TRBs ago) so I didn’t get to practice anything in this thread yet ;(

Mo0ns - Yo! I’m a big fan, your Taskmaster so sick! And yeah you definitely can’t play Ammy braindead anymore with random airdashing. Unfortunately, that’s what my mind defaults to when I’m playing autopilot and I end up eating shit for it. You have a good point about the airdash df though, I almost never try it. Will play around with it next time and see what happens.

Stark - Oh no, was this in the tournament? I don’t remember playing against any Ammy players, but the weekend was a blur for me. Nice games regardless.

Anyway, sick combo! But I’m worried about doing charged glaive H after headbutt - this is the kind of combo I’m trying to avoid since I have a hard time with the timing, like I mentioned in my first post. That’s why I hate those air qcf + H, falling glaive combos because they require kinda specific timing, timing which changes depending on how you hit the dude. That’s why I want to drop it, because if you don’t time the falling H properly you won’t hit the ground in time to do the fully charged qcf+L. In the combos you guys are doing that involve that headbutt to falling H, are you timing the H? Or does your variation of the combo let you just do it as fast as possible?

I feel right now the main problem with Ammy against “stronger” characters is that she has to hit you twice, while they have to hit you only once. Therefore, characters like Wolverine or Spencer get to take way more risks than you and can just play nuts because they have nothing to fear. So either your combo into DHC has to do a shitton of damage, or you have to have some sort of TAC combo that does the damage for you, which sucks because 1) its a TAC and can be countered 2) in my case, I need the corner to get good damage but I don’t have any guaranteed corner carry combos with Ammy yet.

Also, how’s the timing on that counter to airdash forward air L, H?

Clock


#11

All I can really help you with is the counter thing since I’m fairly new to Ammy myself, but the timing is not that hard. Just airdash as soon as Ammy lets go of the opponent and when you’re in range, press L > H quickly. You have more time to land j.L than you would think because of its very fast startup (4 frames if I’m not mistaken). It’s really not that hard once you realise just how soon you can airdash after the counter, I sat around in training mode practicing it and got it down after about an hour doing it against several different characters.


#12

It wasn’t in tourney, no, it was at the brokentier booth on friday. As for that particular combo, if you don’t want to do something like that you can still do stuff off ground weapon change, but… Well, if you want to deal with Ammy’s low damage, one solution is to do stronger combos with her, lol. I know that’s not much of a statement, but like you said, you haven’t really done much training mode with her and perhaps you should? It doesn’t stop the issues with her neutral game and you still won’t be able to kill big guys in one combo but if you can land a random hit against Zero and then DHC to kill him, that’s still good, and if you can stay on them as they recover from hard knockdown and use your assists you can force some unreactionable mixup on them chasing their ground tech and using an assist to cover the gap in instant j.l > glaive j.3h for instance. (And this gap doesn’t exist in slow, if you happen to have an excess of meter you feel like burning.)

As far as air dash j.l j.h after the counter, I don’t think it’s difficult. I was getting it consistently at a local last night after maybe ten minutes of time practicing at it to make the video I linked here.


#13

So to time the fully charged H, do you eyeball it? Or does your variation let you just start charging the H immediately after the headbutt? I feel like the timing depends on the altitude, and that varies depending on the situation. Like, I either do it too late and hit the ground before anything comes out, or hit it too early which doesn’t let me do a whole lot afterwards ;(


#14

Also, awhile back I was trying to figure out a worthwhile TAC combo but haven’t found anything good. Right now I think I do TAC, immediately change glaive, df+H xx qcf+S xx super, which is crappy and doesn’t even work all the time. I also do immediately change glaive, fully charged H (sometimes 2) into super, which also sucks. I was trying to experiment with immediately change beads, air H xx change glaive, but I don’t remember figuring out anything good. I refuse to believe Ammy’s TAC options are this limited!


#15

There’s not really a need to eyeball it most of the time. The timing does depend on the altitude but there’s not that many altitudes it can happen from, usually you either get it from the fastest possible j.m qcf if you were already in glaive or for reflector j.h weapon change j.m qcf. The basic combo from glaive launcher will time itself for you, but the other won’t. For against ground if you want you can instead do the combo Honzo does of whatever > M H 22M, M S j.M qcf, that will get you the easy timing from reflector. But it’s still good to know the other timing as it’s similar to that you’d use converting from incidental air hits, or off of the counter.

So that’s two timings you’d need to learn. If you can get the timing consistent for the combo leading into it then the timing for the falling j.h will also be consistent. In all cases except instant j.M qcf there is a delay, but I feel like there’s enough leniency that it’s okay, there’s nothing in here that was remotely as difficult as some of the stuff we all saw you do back in MvC2 days, lol.

Sometimes off of some things you need to delay and you head charge higher than you want and then it’s not consistent and you may need to estimate, but in general if you err on the side of a bit too early then even if you screw up you’ll still be able to do, like, land and 6HHHH into tech chase, or go for an air throw reset, or what have you. It’s not as much, but it’s still something.


#16

In that situation you could probably fit a combo with strider assist that will reset the ground bounce and let you run up otg chop super or reset. This is of course granted ammy doesn’t end up being the last character. Idk if doom would work or not here.


#17

… I thought Vajra was hard knockdown? You can use it to reset ground bounce? Oh man that’s awesome, end everything in the corner in super > glaive OTG 22L > RESETS

Edit: It doesn’t work and I’m sad now, I see what you ACTUALLY meant lol. Well if you had strider assist you could still, uh, do the extension in the video without the first charge thunder edge.

Edit: Edited my previous post to add some more stuff on delays, noting that there actually is nodelay needed from instant j.M qcf, though if you want to get good damage off of air or counter conversions it’s still important to learn different timings and it’s fairly lenient.


#18

Wish I had actually transcribed my Ammy combos because I had a few variations when I first started messing with her. I think any combos I used Doom beam in started with glaive and were suboptimal using the assist because it wrecked her already low damage (in some combos you lose over to 50k I believe depending on how lucky you get with the elements super’s random damage)… converting from the assist I usually freestyle since I rarely have that order anyway. Since I play her anchor I rarely have use for the BnB I adopted (usually have her in XF) so it hasn’t become muscle memory yet, however, I’ve noticed that the fewest :f: + :h:'s the better for damage purposes.

Anyway, here’s the combo that I found did the most damage starting with disc (didn’t really test it for meter build)

cr. :l:, (cr. or st.) :m:, st. :h: (can add a :f: + :h: for better confirm if necessary - puts you closer to the opponent to ensure that the follow up combos) > (stance change to glaive) > :m:, :s: > (instant) j. :m:, :qcf: + :h: > (full charge) [:h:] > (land) :qcf: + [:l:] > st. :h:, cr. :h:, :qcf: + :l: > elements or level 3

In the corner instead of everything after the full charge :qcf: + :l: you can do the :f: + :h: loop then dash up :s: into elements super for more damage, but that doesn’t work on shorties.

Also outside of the corner you can use this combo to set up a reset with Strider I imagine (I haven’t tested with the assist, but hit stun deterioration forces them to flip out). Instead of comboing after the charged :qcf: + :l: with :h: you can use :m: call assist then do a quick :qcf: + :l: to cross under, then you’re perfectly in place to OTG with Glaive near the opponent. Edit: Scratch that, works better if you do the fully charged :h:, land, call assist then :m:, :qcf: + :l: (works for all techs) as Strider often whiffs if you do it the other way or they land before he hits making a conversion harder.


#19

Lol oops yeah I guess you could go for that too.


#20

Sorry if I’m jacking this thread a little bit, but I’m having similar problems with Ammy and one of the biggest issues I’m having is hit confirming into a combo with Veil of Mist on. With XF3 and the slow down from the hyper, it causes Ammy to become really hard to control in combos since everything moves so slow while she moves so fast. Anyone have any videos showing combos with Veil of Mist and XF on?