An Ultimatum for Juri

juri

#1

This post is kind of uncharacteristic of me, its basically a rant and an ultimatum for my main.

Juri, I remember Day 1 of Super, how you struck me as a character that I basically HAD to make my main. I did this, it was the beginning of a long and bumpy road while I learned the fundamentals of the game and to make the most of you. I stuck with you through and thin. Hoping that the what was come to make you stand up more.

I’m sorry Juri but I’m fed up. I’m fed up struggling to win. I’m fed up losing to retarded BS online. I’m fed up the fact I can be thrown from the start of any Pinwheel. I’m shit sick of the fact your Ultra 2 isn’t a f***ing anti air. I’m fed up accidentally activating your Super and losing as a result.

You bad match ups are so bad, its a joke. Whenever I see a Guile, Honda, El Fuerte or a Blanka, they just laugh at me. For Christs sake, you had a bad matchup against on of the worst characters in Super! ( Sakura )

Why did I stick with you? I like to taste the sweet smell of success and it tasted sweet when I had a good day at a tournament or online. Then again, my rant is inspired by online which is completely different to offline play.

Online in AE has being horrific for me the past week, it could be the fact the PP system is completely retarded ( It took you 3 matches to get 80PP? Lose one and bang goes that 80PP! ) and I’ve even shamefully rage quit against one player because he spent the whole f***ing match match running away THEN finally insulted me by pulling an ultra on me.

This frustration has happened too much the last week, if I keep this up, I’m going to end up with a broken arcade stick from slamming it on the ground in frustration. Its too easy for the rest of the cast to pull a fast on you, Juri and I’m sick of it.

However, I am willing to give you one more chance, one more chance to prove that your capable of standing up to the big boys.

This Saturday, Ireland is hosting a Evo Qualifier in Dublin. I will be there, I will be using you in the main event. I realistically know that I probably won’t win it but I’m all I’m aiming for is one thing: To get out of groups.

We’ve done it twice before at the local tournaments but now we’re playing with the big boys, this is all I want to do. If I can succeed in getting out of groups, then maybe, just maybe there is hope for you after all.

If I should fail though, I’m not going to be happy and I’m afraid I’ll have no choice to drop you as my main. Who will replace you with? I’m not sure yet, I COULD move the selection circle one spot to the left but it wouldn’t be cool joining the army, maybe I’ll promote my secondary in Super to main status in AE ( Bison ) or maybe I might even go back to Ken, my vanilla main.

Please Juri, don’t let me down.

Like I said, this sort of uncharacteristic of me. I just needed to vent more than anything else, I’m sure of a couple of others are feeling the same about Juri in AE and yes, I’m serious about the ultimatum but I had made this decision some time before AE was released on consoles.


How can I help the Juri forums?
#2

Online is online. Esp if you have a bad connection, sometimes you gotta take it with a grain of salt and learn to only care if you get blown up on a perfectly good green connection, or even more important- being blown up offline.

Also I heard the pp/bp glitchin like crazy in AE, like people are actually losing PP or BP when they win. Glad I quit ranked, people do stupid things to pull a win like abuse lag tactics… just do stuff you would never see offline and it can actually cause you to develop bad habits (just breaking out of mashing crouch tech, dumbasses always trying to tic me to death)

With that said I’ve actually been slightly frustrated with her too recently, she’s at risk of becoming my 3rd from 2nd… replaced with Rose. I haven’t had problems winning with her offline but a lot of matches are really close calls that may of just boiled down to me getting in a crucial guess at the end, while my Bison either just slaps the sht out of my opponent or has lots of breathing room when he wins. It’s her wakeup game that’s bothering me… she is more fun to use in AE but fun =/= better competitive wise. Still the walk speed will boost her footsie game a bit and her new dash makes it easier for me to do dash up and grab gimmicks like I do with my Bison, but her true problems were never addressed. Also, she doesn’t really do anything exceptionally good, she has lots of options but none stand out. I still like her and have fun with her- and it’s rewarding winning with her. People say blocking is the best and I won’t argue with that. However I will raise the point that blocking doesn’t stop pressure- and that’s something Juri can’t handle too well. Make one mistake while your on the defense you’ll either get knock down’d (e.g. grabbed) put in same position again or kiss a chunk of your health away. I see this happen to high level Juris too. =/ I dont know. I’m probly just spoiled with Bison’s wakeup game and I’m going to try and get better with Juri’s but I think people know what I’m getting at here.

Good luck at the tourny, you should only judge yourself offline. And as for losing to scrubs online because of lag, it happens to all of us…

lol @ not being able to block because of input and my qcf motions lagging out. Don’t worry when that happens, just laugh! If it happens offline then ya you got a big problem


#3

There’s 2 reasons why you want to give up on Juri. One is she’s still not the best character in the game which makes sense.

The second is because she requires work to be effective and most people that play her are just not good enough with what you need to make her effective. People still play her completely without her fireballs and her fireballs are pretty much a must to make her competitive. People still combo into pinwheel as their only bnbs when she has way better bnbs that dont involve risking pinwheel getting blocked. They’re not forcing people into the corner with her myriad of moves that push people into the corner (basically ever special move and throw she has). People just play her really shitty and it’s easier to just run to a character where you dont have to do much to win. That’s why the only people that even do well with her are the likes of Ed Ma, Neo and a few of the Japanese ones that are out.

Basically what I’m saying is the reason you’re having trouble is more than likely due to how bad you are with her than anything else. There’s still plenty of characters in this game that wish they could do what Juri can.


#4

Juri for me is either really easy to win with, or you gotta work really hard. If she can get the opponent in the corner and not let em out, get a few hitconfirms when she has FB stored she’s actually easy mode. Vs characters than can escape or you dont get them cornered you gotta work.


#5

Why do you play juri to begin with?


#6

Why did you make this thread? This is the shit I’m talking about. You didn’t have to make a whole thread about how you cant win with her. Plain and simple, if you cant win switch characters or games.


#7

I still enjoy playing with Juri,she’s my main until the end. I feel your pain, but when you picked up juri, you knew fully that it wasn’t going to be easy.


#8

She has badmatchups, she not nearly as bad as you make her out to be, sorry to say but its probably just you, in which case your better off picking a character with more user friendly mixups and fundamentals.


#9

Hang in there mate! Just like with any woman, it takes a little time to see just how crazy they can be.


#10

Here thanks everyone, like I said, it was more of a vent than anything else and the reason I posted it as a separate thread is because I didn’t want to clog up the main stickys above, that is all. I also appreciate the bluntness of some of the replies, its better to read what I needed to read as opposed to what I wanted to read.

Why do I play her? I’ve actually had to have a think about this because there is no one answer. Her personality appealed to me one ( she reminded me of some of the total pyscho ladies I’ve known down through the years - but this isn’t the place to talk about that - I will say that since I’ve started playing in general, I’ve become considerably calmer in my day to day life ) and I liked her move set and ability to store fireballs. Another reason could be perhaps I actually *like *playing lower tier challenging to master characters, when 3sOE comes out, I’m pretty sure I’m going to be maining Hugo in it, for example.

Of course I think Juri is fun to play otherwise I wouldn’t be still playing her a year later though I admit it sometimes feel like a chore, especially in ranked mode. Call it pride or stubbornness if you wish. Another thing is that I also do like to work for my wins, hence why I doubt I’ll ever play the twins seriously, they are too brain dead for my liking.

Or maybe I just need to take a break from playing her and go play another character for a while. Regardless, I’ll be sure to record as many of my matches on Saturday as possible as well ask for feedback from people who play me before I make any final decision.


#11

What I can offer is that a break helps if you’re feeling frustrated. I had a quite long break from SF, first playing completely other games, then playing some fighting games (MvC3 and BB:CS) before picking up Juri again. The game is again very much fun for me. Also surprisingly, you improve when taking a break, since you look at things you do with fresh eyes after coming back.

Best of luck in the tournament!


#12

^

That’s a very good idea. And sometimes when you take a break from a game or character and return, you find that you leveled up.


#13

I’m finding the AE Juri better to play with, I beat my 1st Balrog, been crushing Jangs, Yuns, Onis and Evil ryu’s. Had my ass handed to be by Gen and Vega. People are still falling for back to back EX Pinwheels and the occasional full screen HK pinwheel. The most fun is connecting a HK dive kick on a Yun who thinks its safe to do that palm move to build meter from across the screen :slight_smile:


#14

misty just pick yun and yang and call it a day. and no i’m trying to insult. i’m just being very honest with you. it’s obvious that you want to win. so why not pick some of the best tools that don’t require as much effort as juri? also, ken is very good in this game. his bad match ups are not really horrible and his tools for the most part are solid so you wouldn’t do wrong by going back to him.


#15

You people need to stop whining so much. If you don’t like the character, just pick a different one.


#16

I thought someone was going to say tits or gtfo


#17

you know i found new fun in my old vanilla main sakura. Sometimes i find myself wondering…why can’t juri be this awesome lol. Two fucking mix up and Sakura can stun 90% of the cast…two fucking mix-ups…ffs…


#18

Misty. A lot of this thread has turned into “Just switch” or “Just get better”. Now I’m not saying I disagree with those two…heh…because maybe Juri doesn’t fit your playstyle, or maybe you’re not good enough to play Juri (The harsh reality ist hat Juri MUST work for her wins).

But instead of saying one of thos things and closing the thread, I’d rather offer some help for any juri out there having problems. I myself, have problems with Juri and when simple things DONT work that should…i always think to myself “If this akuma, it would have worked”. But thats the reality of it. Juri is an incomplete character that capcom doesn’t see as incomplete, or they cannot complete her due to balance.

So…lets dive in, shall we?

**1)You play her because her personality appeals to you/Low Tier: **This is a good reason to play a character and grow a bond with them. It sounds silly in a game that isn’t based on Charisma stats of a character to a player, but the more you like the character the more you’ll want to win with the character. The more you can get behind the character the more FUN you will have with the character. This ultimately will lead to more memories, more enjoyable sessions of play. I did an armor cancel super a few nights ago and the person I played literally put the controller down and said I’m done. This FELT good, and made my night. I could have lost every other match, but that one moment made it easy for me to go home and ignore the fact that I cannot beat IloveuJoe’s Yun.

Because the matches are tough to win, you have a sense of accomplishment to your wins. I personally feel the opposite. When I win with Juri for the most part its an empty win. I personally feel its cheap. My offense is cheap, random, and sometimes just downright silly to watch. Others look at it and praise it. I dont see why. The whole point of this little piece is to say…when you win you SHOULD feel accomplished. This does well for your self esteem and ego and will make you play better, train harder, and keep you motivated.

**2)You play her because of her moveset and ability to store fireballs: **This is why I like playing her. Granted, I would have played her anyways, but I really do like these two factors about her. Its her biggest flaw and her biggest strength. Her normals are weird, but good. Her anti air options are plentiful so its easy to hold ground. This is something I do think is important as a Juri player ESPECIALLY WITH YUN AND YANG. Her ability to put her feet in the sand and say “no, you CANNOT enter this area without clearance” is great. Her normals stop characters from advancing in the air from the time they leave the ground to the time they want to land. (far hp, far hk beat jump attempts, and her obvious anti air normals). Her fireball stores help trap and keep distance. Her air to air options are great. And if she is in a bad place, she can reposition herself and start over.

Her Normals and fireballs create really mean corner pressure that should NOT be ignored. Many people I’ve played say…“Once I’m cornered the match is yours”. and its true. This is a reason to play Juri. This is my goal in the match, 100%. I don’t care WHO you are, your options are limited severely in the corner. Even God Tier Yun, Yang, Fei get mauled in the corner or they must make a really big risk. Of course proper read is in order, but thats what good players do…they learn how all the chess pieces move and operate and make good reads with whats on the board.

**3)Can feel like a chore: **I know this feeling all too well. But what you have to do to overcome this is make the chore an actual chore. Playing her should not the the chore…learning her should be. Take some time in the training room and visualize and create. You have a character that works outside of the realm of how most of the characters work. Because of this you have an opportunity to be creative. A setup in Super I used a lot was fireball store (hit and KD), immediate jump, land, sc.mk xx release. That worked well because they would think tech. At the worst they got scared it was a safe jump and blocked. Pressure still. In AE i’ve changed this to land c.mk and have had great success with this and fuzzy guards creating a high low hell. The point of this is to say I took the time to create that for myself and now the chore of pressure and mix up isn’t in the match, but rather its been made easier for the match.

The chore should be training room. Make it that way. Take the time and just practice small things. I mean, really small things. Practice throwing fireballs and holding them. Think about the situation’s you would need to throw them and do so. Visualize someone jumping in. Visualize someone using blanka ball. What do you do after? Do it. Start over. This way your mind is re-wired for situations. You knock someone down ith a sweep in the corner. What do you do? Hes Ryu. Now do it. What do you do after?

4)Ranked mode: If playing a good match with a good player in which it was an even match was sex…Ranked mode would be masturbating in the bathroom stall at work with only 5 minutes to finish. Sometimes it will quench your thirst, other times it will just frustrate you further.

Ranked mode is flawed in its general idea. Make 2 players play ONE match. Based on the players the point scaling is different and because of that people are more likely to do stupid things to protect their points. If ranked mode was actually like a tourney, I’d be fine with that. 2/3 matches + Championship Mode from Vanilla would be the best online experience IMO…

I digress slightly. Because the system itself is flawed you shouldnt put faith in it. You shouldn’t play it expecting great players. Doing Gimmiedem Points has shown me this. I have like…9 episodes of this and hundreds of recorded matches with online ranked mode and a LOT of matches not posted because I Raged. This has taught me that…you cant take this seriously. Because when I went to my first major and online ranked mode bs wasnt working it really made me change how I played. I played a chun-li (who also plays juri, his name escapes me everytime…) who BODIED me. Everyone kept going “KAIL, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING FOOTSIES WITH CHUN!!?” im like “…why not? Works all the time! I thought her footsies were on par with chun”. They explained online vs offline…heh.

**5)Take a break: **Taking a break is always good. You come back refreshed and sometimes eager with ideas. I know I’m not the only one but I think of things all the time…in the car, on the toilet, in the shower, at work, whatever…I’m always thinking. So when I sit down Its fun and exciting to play because of the possibiities in the training room/matches. But like your muscles, your brain needs a rest too. This is important to do.

Now that I’ve talked about everything you’ve said, let me give some advice that I give everyone

1)Training Room: Juri is not like viper. She cannot win with canned setup’s that everyone knows but the average player has a hard time defending against it that leads to Ultra (COUGHINSTANTOVERHEADSCOUGH)

[SIZE=4]But she does have creativity and really tricky normals/specials. Her specials require finger individuality and her normals require the same + knowledge. You have to spend time practicing these things. Can you do a full combo with 2 fireballs stored? Why not? EVERY Juri player should be able to do this. Can you do a dizzy combo with 3 fireballs stored no meter used? WHY NOT!? Some characters you can and in my opinion you should. Can you hold a fireball and defend yourself? Can you hold two fireballs and defend yourself? Can you hold a HK fireball while zoning with lows and mids until you’re ready to throw the high…dash forward after the juggle and ex pinwheel? You should be able to. Can you hold 2 fireballs while hit confirming a low and not letting go of the mid fireball but releasing it without it coming out? You should. Can you do instant overheads? You should. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]The list goes on and on. Some of those things are not practical some are. But what they do teach is having your brain ready. Tuesday I played an adon and I had a hk fireball stored. He jumped in. I c.mp him. He resets himself. I said “hes not gonna block this”, so I c.lp xx release high". Someone who plays juri also goes “Did you knwo that aws gonna work!?” I said “I had a good idea”. Because I had the knowledge that lights xx high fireballs work sometimes and I had the finger dexterity and individuality to pull that off. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]You should have drills, to train yourself to do things…not because you want to do them but because you can…because there might be something you find that requires you to do something tricky with your fingers.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]2)Knowledge: [/SIZE][SIZE=4]I get props for understanding my character and the little things about the match up’s. When I beat a cammy player he went “how did you know your ex dive kick would punish my DP”. I went “I learned it from somewhere”. Shoutouts to the guy on this very forum that taught me that. Bet most other Juri’s never do this so cammy’s might get beat by this. When I started punishing blanka with lk pinwheel or lk pinwheel xx super…they stopped blanka balling. The match now is in my favor because they are forced to play a style they dont want to play. Once i started stuffing hondas headbutts, now I take away soemthing about this bad matchup. Once i started taking away charge from characters with setups…people got scared of KD’s. Knowledge is your friend.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]How punishable is ex machinegun blow? Whats the recovery on Ryu’s sweep? Whats the start up of scissor kick? Whats the best punish for Yun’s ultra 1 being blocked? Can I press buttons here? Can I press buttons there? What buttons? Does Oni’s ultra break glass? Whats the start up of Gouken’s back throw? Can it be crouch teched? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]These are just random things that come to mind…but guess what…these are all questions that I’ve thought about in the last few days because these things NEED answers. You should find answers for your questions. Always ask why, how when you lose…then immediately answer them. Something I learned from gootecks (its lame I know) but he kept a book. I have the Big Nasty Kail book of Salt. My loses go in ehre and the questions get answered. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]3)Fundamentals: [/SIZE][SIZE=4]This shoudl be first but I’m lazy. Most players have lackluster fundamentals. They like to cover them by things like crouch teching and mashing out. Sometimes…you gotta know when to throw. Sometimes you gotta know how to block cross up’s. Sometimes you gotta know how to block overheads. You should know how to combo, how to link, how to hit confirm. You should jus thave a firm understanding of the game and how it works so that if Juri wasn’t on the select screen you could pick anyone and be able to play footsies, anti air, combo (if you know them), hit confirm, tech throws, ultra on both sides, fadc …like…the basics. As I said above…make the chore training room…not in the match when it counts. Why lose a match because you cant ultra on one side. Thats just dumb. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]4)Make goals: [/SIZE][SIZE=4]I posted a vlog a while back saying my personal goals in street fighter. they were simple. I’m getting there. Long Island players see me as at least top 10, most players saying top 5. Do I agree? No. But It feels good because this was one of my goals…to be competitive. To feel like I can win vs almost anyone (IloveuJoe I’m looking at you…still cant). My goal was to place top 3 in locals and stay there. I’m getting there. My goal is to get 1 more win than last major. ECT this weeken I’m going for 3 wins. When you make small goals you find accomplishment in them easier than big goals. Even if its “I want to sit down and learn fadc ultra”. When you can land it 75% of the time, thats a BIG accomplishment but maybe small in the grand scheme. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]5)Patience: [/SIZE][SIZE=4]You’re not going to get better overnight. Trust me. Before NEC I sat up going “…I dunno if I should go…its a major…i’ve only been to 1 other tourney…time to practice!!!”. I sat up and played and played and played and NEC I went 0-2. It didn’t work…heh. Thats a literal example to a nonliteral statement. If you really like playing fighting games and you want to improve with Juri…remember…shes a tough character to play with. As I said, I agree with the above. Pick a different character if its not worth your time and effort…or get better. Thats your only 2 options. No offense you’re not the best player in the world that just happens to have bad luck. You need work, we all do. So have patience. This game is going no where. Put the work in, and be the best juri you can be…or…Pick Ken. But your problems with fundamentals, execution, knowledge will follow you to ken. You’ll just win more. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]And thats the dangerous part…you’ll win more without getting better. You dont want this.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]Thats a mouthful. I hope I didn’t repeat myself too much. I hope it got the wheels spinning. I Hope it excites you to play Juri more. I hope it helped…We all need some help with Juri and this forum needs to be where we get it. Not just a “GTFO” response.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]Good Luck[/SIZE]


#19

Well, first of all, the advice about taking time and playing different games is good, but if I were you, I wouldn’t play MVC3 as a break from SSF4 LOL. That game will mostly likely just piss you off, you have to be very tolerant when it comes to that game.

And for some reason, I don’t particularly feel Honda’s a bad match-up, I dunno about you guys, but even back in SSF4, I didn’t feel he was a particularly bad match-up. Dunno about AE though, haven’t fought him yet.

Anyway, if you have any vids, you should post 'em up, so we can see if you’re going wrong somewhere.


#20

honda was only considered an bad match because he blew juri the fuck up once he touched her. and i also think his jump fierce traded on average with juri’s AA normals so that was pretty depressing. but it wasn’t as horrible as say juri vs fei. but i would say it was in honda favor by like 6/4. btw you’re absolutely correct about needing to being tolerant to play mvc3.