Anti-Makoto Option Select?


#1

I’ve been toying with an option-select of sorts as a means of avoiding damage from Makoto’s basic qcf+P follow-ups/patterns.

It’s basically the directional buttons: down+back, up+back, back. Timed very quickly.

So far it seems to work fairly well.

Immediately following a connected qcf+P from Makoto (eg. Makoto hits me with qcf+P, then does:):

  • If Makoto does a c.LK->qcf+LP then I will block the c.LK low, then block the qcf+P high.
  • If Makoto does LK->qcb+2P then I will block the LK low, then block the qcb+2P high
  • If Makoto does hcb+K then I will super jump out of it
  • If Makoto does qcb+2P then I will super jump out of the way.

Only thing that seems to really break it is if Makoto does something slow like a standing HP or an intentionally delayed LK into whatever. But, it seems like if Makoto delays the hit then at least I will be in the air and get knocked back.

I realize this seems like a pretty basic option select that a smart player will eventually learn to break somehow, but I could really use all the help I can get against good Makoto players. :expressionless:

Have other people tried such an option select against Makoto? If so, does it seem reliable?

Any other/better tips for fighting Makoto’s post-hayate mix-up game?

Can it be applied to other situations?


#2

ya, how bout answerin ur phone on weekends, so you can actually do this shit against other humans? maybe??:arazz: :arazz:


#3

guess right, bitches!

cough


#4

I think Kenzilla put it best.


#5

I think EX chop would catch you out of the air, if you try to super jump away post hayate.


#6

Your best bet is to jump away in most cases. You may still get hit or take some damage, but you want to avoid the karakusa at all costs because thats where you will get roasted the worst.

If you just block low, uhhh… thats great… I get another karakusa at best, at worst, kara ex chop. Even a UOH will set up another Karakusa. bring her in range to grip you again. Blocking low I think is one of the worst things you can do in a post hayate situation with her.

As far as blocking the LK and then blocking the following hayate, perosnally, if I see you block it once, next time around Ill cancel it and just grip u with a karakusa or sweep you or something. In some cases I’ll just cancel it anyway even if the LK hits in order to set up a karakusa or some other form of serious damage. :wink:


#7

Sounds similar to what I try to do. Makoto’s mix ups usually involve a low attack followed by a high/mid ranged attack or a karakusa. So it’s usually either block high or jump after the c.LK depending what you feel is safer. If you feel there’s room you can always bait an attack and throw out a poke to make her think twice about rushing down.

Oh I didn’t know you lived around NOVA. Eric Kim told me at the first C3 Cyber monthly about a guy that only plays as Ibuki that he’s played with in some tournaments. We should play some games sometime. Maybe I can learn some stuff from your Ibuki. I see you post a lot on the Ibuki 3S forums and it seems like you know a good bit of the frame data and what not. A lot of people give me props for my Ibuki but there’s still some things I can pick up to make my Ibuki more tournament worthy.


#8

I don’t think you guys understand that jumping can make you eat d.short into combo (which keeps you grounded) and just blocking after the hayate can make you eat karakusa.

He’s trying to find one tactic that wil cover all options (option select)

If anything, if i decide to block, I try to counter/parry after the short (if it is a short that comes).

Doesn’t always work out, but looks flashy when it works haha

I do have a suggestion for the option select though. After the jump, input an empty parry to try and stop the c.RH etc :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

good luck. :rofl:


#10

OOOHH, fixed:wink:


#11

I’m trying to avoid guessing. XD

I was out of town on vacation last weekend. Let’s play this weekend. (like… tonight, actually).

Could it be character specific? It didn’t seem to hit Ibuki when I empty super jumped backward. But maybe my timing was bad.

I agree, but the problem is when you have a low stamina character, that extra damage you take from trying to jump away can really get you killed.

Yeah, that would be fun.

Exactly.

I want to be able to do the same thing every time and still avoid taking additional damage after getting hit by a hayate. That way I can avoid the guessing game.

Yeah, I assume after a short is always going to be an ex chop, which is why I was testing holding back after the superjump input, since that will let you block either a hayate or an ex chop. I was also thinking that if Makoto tries to tick throw with d.short then you’ll walk backward out of throw range, but I don’t know… (I hope so).

I don’t know if inputting an empty parry would work or not, since if you block a short or d.short, you stay grounded, then if you’re inputting an empty parry, you might eat a hayate.

It could work though, I dunno for sure. I’ll have to try it out, thanks.


#12

**there is no avoiding guessing!
**
if the makoto’s timing is good, a momentary low-block->jump will still usually get eaten by karakusa. my friend used to do some shit where he rolled the stick from down-back to up-back, and it didn’t work for very long.

best options (in my experience)!
-jump-back-parry (beats karakusa,c.hk,jump attacks – loses to hayate,s.hp,random stuff)
-block low then block high (beats everything except karakusa and some impractical stuff that makoto probably won’t do)
-if shoto,etc.- fierce shoryu(w/ fire!!!)! (beats hitting buttons! loses to makoto’s best mix-up ever-- BLOCK)
-if chun- low jab- beats lots of stuff(i lost my energy to make a good list)-- fucking annoying.

this list is the really obvious stuff, but it’s obvious for a REASON.:sweat:


#13

But, I was saying you can put both of your first two options together.

You can block low for a few frames, then input a super jump. That avoids getting hit by LK/c.LK (into ex chop/hayate) and karakusa.

I guess the question is reacting to c.HK

[Edit]: Why does it stop working? Super jumps are invulnerable to throws.


#14

actually, i’m full of shit. i’m just really bored today.

how about this- block-low–>jump is not guaranteed. the success varies depending on your and makoto’s timing. assuming makoto will start either c.lk or karakusa at the exact same time, (according to my nonsensical thought-process) there’s a 3-frame window to go from block to jump and be able to cover your ass for both! but… if the c.lk (or whatever other attack) gets inputted(-not sure if that’s a word) a little later, you still get dicked because you stopped blocking and jump has start-up frames of its own.

sooo, good luck.
(and guess right:wgrin:)

ninja-edit about reacting to c.hk- don’t react to it. if you jump back just tap forward every time.


#15

:looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney:


#16

u cant not guess post hayate vs a good makoto, it just doesnt work like that. she has both her bases covered. just hope she guessing wrong since whiffed grab & blocked hayate are terrible unsafe. btw s.lk xx hayate, c.lk xx hayate ex chop will hit a character holding up back after a hayate. not sure about ibuki, but pretty much everyone else it will.


#17

I meant after you leave the ground.


#18

Yeah, I’m assuming that the Makoto player isn’t timing c.LK late. But I’m assuming this because if the Makoto player is timing c.LK late, then you could poke her out of it.

And then that’s another guessing game.

Oh, I was talking about hayate, ex chop. Not hayate, c.lk xx ex chop.

The reason is because if I block the c.LK, then I’m also going to block the ex chop. Only reason I would be in the air is if Makoto didn’t do an immediate LK or c.LK.

Errr… Yeah, but what I was saying is that if I’m relying on the option select, and I end up blocking, then I won’t leave the ground. I would have to react to weather or not I left the ground.

Say for example Makoto hits me with a hayate, then I do the option select : down+back, up+back, toward

A) Makoto jump HK: I SJ and parry
B) Makoto karakusa: I SJ away
C) Makoto c.LK xx hayate: I block low, then eat the hayate

If I were holding back instead of toward, I’d block the hayate in the case of ©. But then in the case of (A) I’d get hit by the j.HK.

As in this option select: down+back, up+back, back

A) Makoto jump HK: I SJ, then eat the j.HK
B) Makoto karakusa: I SJ away
C) Makoto c.LK xx hayate: I block low, then block the hayate high

So in order to cover both possibilities I would have to react to what Makoto does.


#19

well try it out and post your findings. lets us know how it works out for you.


#20

It just comes down to guessing right, I think.

If you get hit with the Hayate, I would jump straight up.
Command throw comes out, I would come down empty
EX anti air, I would be ready to parry it
c.rh, I would take it and Jump up again if she dashes towards me.

If I wakeup and I don’t see a normal coming out, I jump up.

s.lp, s.lk, s.mp are tick throw, so you jump.

Other then that, you block low, then high. In some cases, throw beats ex chop. try it out.

LoL, jump wins!!! I love Makoto tho, shes badass