Anti-Negative Edge Buttons for a Fightstick


#1

Do they exist? I hate negative edge and I think its a bane on the system and it causes me to do things I wouldn’t otherwise do that get me massively punished. I’m just looking for a button that resets on depress so that even if I’m holding down the button it doesn’t count as me holding it down.

I’m not looking for "get better execution’ advice as some combos require speed, and as an oni player trying to do a cr.mk > fireball > FADC and accidently sending myself flying at the enemy in maximum punish mode because the system registered that I was still pressing mk and made me cr.mk > mk.slash drives me absolutely insane.


#2

Maybe American style buttons with 3 terminal microswitches with the COM (common/ground) and NC (Normally Closed) instead of the NO (Normally Open) terminals wired.


#3

Yep that’s the only way to do it. If you do this, don’t hit the turbo button.


#4

Negative edge is more in line how the game is programmed than the buttons.


#5

Example is KoF doesn’t have neg edge. To avoid it in games that do, using the NC terminal instead is a way to defeat it. It does feel a little different when playing though.


#6

not gonna lie. If you’re new to fgs there are probably some things that you can’t do now that you will be able to do later. This problem may sort itself out in the future as I promise the switch to American parts/a new case to fit that ish will be quite a hump in of itself.

Unfortunately it seems you’ll have to make some changes/do some learning either way you flip it.


#7

Negative edge is a function of the software, e.g. the way the game reads your inputs, and not necessarily something you can easily fix with hardware adjustments without a bit of work.

You’d be surprised how very rarely combos require speed over accuracy. As much as you may not look for ‘get better execution’ advice, it really is the best. You have to practice this stuff. Trying to be a tech wizard and mess with your arcade controller isn’t going to fix bad execution. There’s no real workaround for practice.

Also, slash is a hcf forward, so all your problems would be fixed if you just started from a neutral or db position.


#8

Yea I realize my problem with that specific input but there are a few others that really screw with me. I’ve ordered myself an octa gate to see if that will stop my from accidently db’ing when I should be neutral but other than that…

Thanks a lot to everyone who answered, using this info to do some real research.


#9

There no substitution for practice.


#10

A button that does that would have to automatically ‘double-tap’ by giving positive edge -> negative edge on consecutive frames when you push it. That’s a form of turbo, and I would consider it to be cheating in competitive play.

For the game to reliably recognize the button press, it needs to read as pressed for a full frame before ‘resetting’. There are a bunch of ways to do that, but the easiest is probably to wire some kind of microcontroller into the stick and program it.


#11

Problem with that is you are assuming your game even allows for that kind of input. Like what Moonchilde said KOF don’t have a neg edge.

All I suggest is to wire American style buttons with the NC terminal instead of NO, which will force you to hold the button down to keep the switch in a OFF state.
releasing the button would be the same as constantly holding the button in a normal wiring scheme, there no turbo to be had.


#12

Yeah, the ONLY way is to use American buttons or any button with a Cherry style switch. This goes for Sanwa OBS-M as well.

With things wired to NC, the game sees the button as pressed. When you press the button, the game sees the button as not pressed, and when it goes back to neutral, considers it pressed again. This gives you exactly 1 input and no more. No negative edge.

If you press the button again, it will see it as a negative edge, or release, and then when it goes back to neutral, you get your 2nd button press.

Either way, there will be negative edge, no matter how you look at it. For combos and chains, this method will kill all negative edging mostly. But, if you for example do a hadouken, and press the button and hold it, a fireball will come out since it sees it as a negative edge. You won’t get a punch before hand, however, you WILL get a punch animation after, since the game will see a button press after negative edge.

Really dude, just practice your execution or don’t play games that have negative edge. It would be expensive and a lot of work to try to defeat it, when you can simply practice and get better and not make these mistakes in the first place.


#13

Also, NC could be borderline cheating with a character like Balrog (boxer) because if you were to tap all 3 punch or kick buttons, the game would see it as release and then held down without you having to hold down the buttons. Then you could use the opposite set of buttons (punch or kick) and play normally, and when you want to TAP you could simply press all 3 of the buttons not being used. Yeah, that’s definitely borderline cheating, or actually, IS cheating, so do yourself and everyone else a favor and wire shit up the proper way.


#14

As you note, setting buttons to normally connected only switches the order of the edges.

Wiring things so that buttons are (effectively) NC just moves the negative edge forward. As you note, that has interesting effects on negative edge charge characters like El Fuerte.

It’s pretty easy to set up electronics to reverse the buttons - there’s no real need to use particular button hardware.

As far as I’m concerned wiring buttons to NC, or setting buttons up to be toggles is not cheating.


#15

The problem with wiring up buttons NC is outlined above. It effectively gives Balrog players a super easy way to charge TAP a whole round without ever having to hold a button. Start the round, press PPP/KKK, then play normally, and when you want to let that TAP rip, just press the button again. You would also have easy set it and forget it TAP options for short TAP charge. It’s basically cheating, and I’m surprised no one has done it yet.

The way you’re supposed to play is give up a finger or two to hold 3 P or K buttons down or in the case of SF4, the extra 4th button, and use dexterity and skill to press the other buttons while you hold that stuff down.

Or shit, you could have the normal 6 buttons regular and then the extra 2 buttons NC. Start round, press both of them, make the game know they’re “held” (closed) and then choose a set of normals to use on the regular 6 buttons and play without ever having to give up dexterity. Definitely a cheap cheat tactic.


#16

Constant TAP isn’t IMO useful as it eliminates your ability to use the other punch buttons (for punching things or in conjunction with LK for teching throws) AND for USFIV TAP > lvl. 3 is extremely punishable on block so you don’t want to be constantly and indefinitely charging the move. I also, if R1 and L1 have been wired up as OP desires, cannot fathom the irritation of doing something as simple as navigating menus.


#17

Just hold the buttons down to navigate. No big deal. TAP pressure is ridiculously good in games like ST. It can be devastating in SF4, too. Like I said, you can still choose to use punch or kick depending on which 4th button you press at the start of a round. I’d take a little damage from a throw because I can’t tech if it meant I could bust out a surprise TAP. You could even play using punch or kick by simply deciding to press one of the p or k buttons and swapping it around. Even short TAPs do good damage. Or, tech the throw, press the button again and let it charge and then TAP.


#18

And if god had wanted man to fly, he would have given us wings. It seems like there are some fundamental differences of opinion about what sort of things should - or should not - be allowed in sticks.


#19

So you’d be perfectly ok playing against someone with that type of setup with 1 button automatic TAP charging? The whole point of having to charge TAP is getting a powerful attack and having to sacrifice some dexterity for it. Some people get really good with that method and that’s how it was intended to be played. Again, not even having to give up dexterity to charge TAP is pretty much cheating.


#20

On the technological side I can see the advantage, on the practical manual dexterity side, its going to be a pain in the neck which you lose all your advantages.
You have to hold the button down until you want that button to activate then you release the button. Almost impossible to do with all 6 buttons as it going to be a pain to hold all six down continuously in game play.
And doing this with only 1 or two buttons you got to keep track how each button works.

Also this hack idea only works with American Style and heavily modified Sanwa RG buttons. Not the easiest to install…

Also my experiences, you can ask 10 people what should be allowed in a stick, and you get 10 different answers.

its why we have a saying here “six buttons cool and eight buttons are dick” With only 6 buttons, you got no hidden extra action buttons, macros, select plinking, extra directions for SOCD exploits and and of that garbage.

Now if I can only get the stick lag thread to be locked and the contributors banned.