Anti P-Groove Thread


#1

anybody have advice against P-groove? i’d say a good P-groover is my main weakness. i’ve been thinking about the different characters/grooves that would theoretically do well against P-groove and i haven’t figured out too much.

i’ve looked into an N-groove team for the mixup factor of empty low jump games and characters like A-todo for the ability to build meter very quickly then chip them by means of guardbreak CC. i’m also practicing RC lariats with A-eagle because his fierce lariat is extremely difficult to parry.

for AA options i try to walk under and do a move (like walk/run under close rh with chunners into super jump rh) that will throw off their parrying timing. i try to be less predictable and throw more also.

any other good advice against P-groove?

thanks


#2

The bane of all K and P Groovers: Running Sakura.


#3

I guess the painfully obvious answer is don’t be predictable… :slight_smile: heh, yeah, whatever.

Mix up your upclose pokes and stuff with moves that have to be parried HIGH if you can. I think it’s kinda cool how Parry forces you to switch up your pokes so you can’t just abuse the same normals.

If you’re presented with an opportunity to poke, or a hole don’t always take it… not with the same attack anyways. like, after you block a Geese s.RH. or a far Rolento sweep. Or a close shoto d.forward. Or if you block d.jab x2, and they hesitate afterwards leaving a hole. The might be tapping down/forward before they go into their next attack to try and land the parry.

If they’re waking up, you could try to attack just after they get up… So they tap the easy wake-up parry, get nothing, then you attack.

For AA there’s the obvious tried and true tactic of more-hits-the-better. Make it harder to parry by adding hits. If he’s a good parry’er he can smoke whatever you throw at him though… :confused:

There’s that and not always anti-air with the same move at the same height… do jump-back attack, go for airthrow, do a real early high attack, or do the deep low one.

You prolly know this junk… I’m just sayin’. About RC lariat… If I’m P, and jump in, could I parry one or 2 hits and then just hit you?

Technically parry can own anything right? I’m suprised that I haven’t heard of a crazy P-Groove player winning tournaments… There must be some in Japan somewhere


#4

#1 A Groove
#2 Mixups
#3 Throws


#5

i’m pretty sure since eagle’s RC lariat spins so quickly that you have to parry most if not all of the hits. plus the timing is pretty awkward, so RC lariat against P-groove is a pretty solid defense.

technically parry can own anything, but that puts you into the realm of theory fighter vs real life. in mvc2, strider/doom can theoretically lock you down the entire match. in cvs2, you should theoretically be able to RC every move 100%. both of these situations don’t factor human error in.

i’ve only heard of makoto (P-kyo/vega/R2 cammy) as the main P-groover in japan. i’m sure there’s more, but i either haven’t seen vids of them or forgot them.


#6

Makoto is the shit. P Kyo Okizeme for life.


#7

In short, he pretty much sums it up. All I can is to play as unpredictable as possible like poking with less common pokes, even those with less priority just to throw them off. Be careful trying to do empty jump tactics though as some players are can be really dangerous with option select. Just remember that not all P- Groove players are the same, obviously. At the start, play it safe and find out how good they really are at parrying. For example, some players don’t down parry as much, can’t parry in the air, don’t use option select, can’t parry cross-ups, etc. I’m pretty sure they can’t parry everything. Anyway, I still play a backup C-Groove team cuz I still fear A-Groove a lot. As for winning tournaments, Makoto wins in Japan and Gee-O wins over here.


#8

Yo, popo. Is there anybody or anything Eagle doesn’t beat?


#9

Eagle is invincible! “invincible…”


#10

Zangief… he ownez Eagle.:o
Play S groove. It’s really annoying for P groove player’s.:confused:


#11

Thats to easy, keep hitting there start button so all they do is taunt, wail away.


#12

i sense some sarcasm…:frowning:

but of course, no character is free of counter characters/tactics. a patient C-sagat gives him a hard time. cammy can be tricky sometimes, but eagle is never without options. i’m not very experienced with the matchup vs C-guile, but i don’t think eagle has as many options. eagle also needs to be played by someone with a decent concept of footsies considering his far reaching moves have tons of lag. you also need good execution considering if you mess up his combo into super, you’re WIDE open. probably one of the reasons i play eagle in A-groove before C.

i guess i like eagle so much because he pretty much has solid options for just about EVERY situation. plus he does well against a great majority of the top tiers, another huge advantage.

no defence, how does gief own eagle?

anyway, don’t want to get off topic and turn this into an eagle thread. so how do i beat P-groovers again…:smiley:


#13

In all seriousness patterns. P Groovers use patterns they pick up on a persons gameplay to determine when and where they will parry. If you have any type of pattern developing anywhere a P Groover will pick it up and parry it on site. You have to keep completely random and unpredicatble, never do the same thing twice if it can be helped. Let them come to you to, P Groove is actually meant to be more of a reative and defensive groove in CvS2, most P Groovers have alittle bit more of a problem if you make them come to you. Use someone with an airthrow, this may seem trivial but its not. P Groovers like to jump to try to trick you into an AA so they can parry, someone with an airthrow will counter that.


#14

IMO, the only situation that I would use an air throw is if I met the P groover in the air. If by then you haven’t jumped to meet the person, then there really isn’t an advantage to you. If you meet air to air then would air throw be an option. I have a pretty good reaction, so if I see you jump I’m going to hit you before you can air throw.The only way I would be hesitant if it was another P/K groover.

I’m not a great P groover, but here is stuff I look out for.

-What the opponent does after a move that has deceptive/quick recovery

For instance, Chun’s st fierce into fierce fireball. If the fireball hits at the latest frame possible, then Chun can st mp afterward and will out prioritize a lot of the moves in the game. This goes hand in hand with patterns … if you cannon spike after every cannon drill, then you’ll get parried on the third attempt. I like to be cautious and wait to make sure the opponent will follow up certain moves with certain attacks.

-Predictable zoning

Here’s something I’m still working on. If you throw out the same move every time I get in range, I’ll purposely get in that range and parry. Example … Sagat st forward. If he’s being a prick and not letting me get in, then I’ll get just in range, parry, and throw out an attack that has enough range to punish him. If the character has a move with the appropriate range.

-Same moves to get into zoning range

Kind of like the above. Like if you are Ryu and like to be in no closer then st fierce, and I am up close … you can find if the opponent is uncomfortable by what they throw out to zone you away. Crouching mk into fireball, its VERY easy to parry the fireball and punish, since the fireball won’t push you back because of parry.

I’m sorry if the examples aren’t very clear, I went off of what immediately came to mind.


#15

Kim owns up eagle for free. Especially kim’s jumping fierce.

And against p groove. Mixups go only a little way against a good p-groover, once they figure out wut u r doing they will almost stop trying to parry and just try to rush u down.


#16

Learn the player and their parry baits, watch to see if they bounce down or step forward after they perform a blocked string, you can tell what direction of parry they are trying to set up. Also there are common parry baits like Terry crackshoot, low parry, low forward, ARE YOU OK?! These tend to work well when the game is close because it is your natural reaction to try to punish/force them to block and it will come out without you knowing it… if the person knows you (and the game) more than you know them then you are in lots of trouble…

air throws do work really well too, because it gives you one more anti air option, and one that cant be parried at that (i know this was mentioned already). So when someone jumps you have normal anti air, specials (ie dragons) anti air - early, normal timing, and very deep (especially with cammy), poke them before they hit ground (ie, rolento c.jab), jumping air to air, super jumping air to air, jumping/superjumping air throw, low jump air to air… just gives you a lot of options if they jump in, gives them much more to think about.

changing up the timing of when you would attack (but not during poke strings, you dont want any gaps in your poke strings :D) but i mean like if they jump straight up or if like Gokou said always using the same move at the same distance right away (in any number of situations… like when you hit them air to air, and land next to them (and you didnt knock them down) this is a good time for them to low parry, if you stick out almost anything (even sagat standing jab!) you will eat a lot of damage)

but it comes down to a lot of outthinking… and sometimes this is very hard to do :slight_smile: As depending on how many… damn, id like to quote sirlin but I forgot what he was talking about! The levels of counter actions you consider… and how many you think they are considering! :slight_smile:

EDIT: An example of this is if they are expecting jump back strong, and you use fierce instead, which has slightly more startup and so the parrying is slightly different (assuming that they are trying to parry! them attacking is completely different situation… this is why p-groove is so frustrating! its that moment of Yes! I can hit them and gain momentum… oh wait I just got parried into super)


#17

RC lariat? or you could just jump up/back mp if you can’t RC lariats (which is crucial for a good eagle). ggpo for kim’s air game. eagle runs shit on the ground against kim.

so how does kim own eagle again?


#18

Actually the biggest problem Eagle has is Kim’s standing short, it can eat Eagle up alive, it outprioritzes almost all of Eagle’ moves. His roll can give Eagle problems to as long as there not predictable with it. He has arguably the best roll in the game. Not to mention Kims ducking jab, he hits that once and its combo time. Kim doesnt own Eagle but he can put up one hell of a fight.


#19

Can kim get into standing short range though? I havent played against a good kim with my eagle… but I mean I think eagle can zone him out fairly well


#20

Yeah he can if its a good Kim player, whether it be dashing or rolling or even running, Kim is excellent at all of them. There is almost always a way inside with Kim. Eagle can keep him out it just depends on the level of the two players but its a fairly even matchup from what ive seen and played.