Any advice on Yun/Yang's repeated dive kicks?

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
#1

Hey guys…

I’ve been a little flustered recently, playing against a lot of Yun and Yang players that constantly abuse the dive kick move to keep me from doing anything. It seems that when they get within sweep range, they set me up so that they will trap me in the corner and start doing dive kicks. Once that happens, they mix it up with either another dive kick, tick into throw or other character-specific stuff (Yun’s jab-short-strong-shoulder ram into Genei-Jin, Yang’s tick into Rekkas).

The only thing I can really do against Yun/Yang players is to hopefully knock them down and then try to mix up attacks on wake up to confuse them (because of their lack of quick anti-air moves). But once they get a handle on things again, I’m usually forced to play at their pace and become extremely defensive. I have a difficult time controlling the offensive tempo in these match-ups. I’m also forced to use Ibuki’s SA2 (Yoroi-Doushi), due to the ineffectiveness of her SA1 and EX moves on the twins. I also can’t do the advancing standing jabs, which is an aggressive option I use a lot.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I’m sure all of you Ibuki players share my pain.

#2

Ineffectiveness of EX moves? One poorly timed dive kick = EX dp FTW.

SA1 is great against Yun/Yang IMO (especially Yun) because if Yun tries random activate or screws up Genei Jin combo you can jump away and throw SA1 to run out most of his Genei bar. s.MK to EX qcb+K is great against both Yun and Yang and can hit them fully on crouch if you switch to low sweeps after the second hit.

#3

Standing MK and toward+HK are also good anti-dives if you see them coming.

Problem is, Yun’s post-dive mixups are another part of what makes Yun so good. People always focus on GJ and tend to forget he has some pretty decent traps. Unfortunately, if you’re blocking dives, your best options are to either option-select or guess. However, best way to avoid damage is to avoid the trap in the first place. If you’re trading his with his dive then at least you’re not putting yourself in a bad mixup situation.

And the twins can still get nailed by her EX moves, you just have to confirm them. Her EX kicks need to be done low if they are crouching, and high if they are standing.

Just don’t jump when he has meter, unless you have meter too.

#4

What’s an option-select? I seriously don’t know what that is.

I didn’t know that EX Kazekiri was effective vs. the twins… I thought they were able to duck the first two hits, but maybe I’m thinking of Chun-Li or someone else.

So, if I am to “confirm” the EX move, what does this mean? Does that mean that I have to make sure they are locked down initially before doing an EX move? (ex: standing MK, EX Kazekiri) Or does it mean that I have to make sure Yun/Yang are in a certain position before I can do EX moves?

If you say EX moves and using SA1 are more effective, I’ll definitely use SA1 again. I guess I was frustrated because I keep falling for the repeated dive kick trap and didn’t have a good immediate solution on how to get Yun/Yang off me.

Is standing LP a good way to stop repeated dive kicks, if the opponent lands fairly close to me? I noticed I accidentally stuff them once in a while doing this, but not sure if it’s a solid option.

I guess I should figure out a solid way to control the offensive tempo against Yun/Yang players, but not sure how that can be achieved. All I can think of is to stay away from the corner… but I’m not sure if I should keep Yun/Yang at a distance or stay on top of them and mix it up. I’d prefer the latter, but I’ve had tons of problems getting in close on Yun/Yang without knocking them down first.

At least I know I have a few more defensive options. Thanks for the help, both of you. I hope we can continue to keep this discussion going.

#5

Option select = When you guess whether they’re going to attack low, high and try to parry. You don’t know for sure but you’re just guessing.

Usually it goes: You get knocked down. Your character is getting up as the opponent is right next to you. You randomly parry forward or down, but if they don’t do anything you follow it by a grab, which is successful. If you guess right then you parried! Without knowing what they were going to do. Then you follow with usually a grab.

#6

if you’re having problems with repeated dive kicks over and over just standing roundhouse that shit. The last thing the twins want to happen is to get hit by Ibuki’s close standing roundhouse.

So here’s what you do: yun/yang comes in doing repeated dive kicks, on his way up to do another dive kick you hit roundhouse and juggle him up in the air, then on his way down you hit him with b+strong,fierce canceled into short command dash then either hold forward or back (to either be in front of him or behind him)after the dash and hit roundhouse again. This will give them a 50/50 guessing game of which way your next close standing roundhouse will come, and it takes a LOT of damage too!

This should take care of them abusing dive kicks.

you can see an example of Aruka doing this here in the first round: [media=youtube]WDGTZtvG1aw[/media]

#7

Is that option select? Do you have to hit the two weak buttons at the same time as the parry to have it do one or the other? Or is the timing early or late?

Sorry if I sound scatterbrained… I’m usually like this if I am either doing more than one thing at a time (I’m at work) or when I lack sleep. :rofl:

Here is my main thesis (most of it not confirmed, but working on it) on how to play against Yun/Yang… I’m just doing this to organize my thoughts.

Main goals (so far)

  • Stay out of corner
  • Take advantage of knockdown situations
  • Force Yun to use Genei-Jin when he doesn’t want to, or waste his EX meter in the process
  • Stay close enough to Yun/Yang, so they don’t intentionally build meter
  • Try to avoid the dive-kick trap (trade or hit him out of it and space efficiently to avoid the deep dive kicks)
  • Do not play too aggressively if Yun has meter
  • Avoid giving Yang opportunities to build meter and spend it by constantly chipping life meter with EX Rekkas
  • Mix up offense and keep Yun/Yang guessing, especially after knockdown. Most Yun players I’ve seen are pretty vanilla and predictable… wanting to get in close to activate Genei-Jin after combo.

Questionables

  • Is towards + HK a good move to use against the twins? I don’t remember if they can duck it, or are too quick to get caught by it. I’m positive DevilJin knows for sure, the preacher of the towards + HK.
  • Is it hard to crossup the twins due to their size? Is it even recommended? I am not good with crossups in general (always end up getting hit or thrown out of it unless I jump back immediately).

I’m going to keep working on it… I’m determined to beat Yun/Yang and that whore Makoto. She’s even more of a pain than the twins.

#8

Of course the twins can duck f.hk. :sad:

#9

Even so…they’re still bound to get hit by it more so than say Chun. You can still use it vs. any of their standing pokes and the twins take to the air a lot more often than Chun ever will. You may not be able to use it so much as far as beating their ground pokes. Yet…Yun isn’t going to be playing too much of a poking game against you any ways. A good Yun player knows Ibuki’s ground pokes are flat out better and is going to pressure with dive kicks more often than not.

Twins can be a bit difficult to cross up due to their small hit box on crouch but not any more difficult than say Chun or Oro or anyone else small. j.MK is always a decent cross up tool but you can also use a LP kunai or EX kunai for the cross up. EX kunai is good if you can get it because it does way more stun than j.MK or LP kunai so when you do it deep enough a combo is pretty much guaranteed. LP kunai is best used after you knock them down so you have time for the cross up to hit them on the wake up.

#10

:wonder: I just grab them out the air with Ibuki’s air throw… dood.

#11

Hmmm… I don’t think there’s enough time to go airborne and throw when a dive kick is right in your face as you get up.

But yeah… I do what everyone pretty much has said. dp/EX.

#12

Parry that sh!t lol

#13

:wonder: You’d be surprised how quickly she’s able to grab opponents out of the air. The second they jump you just jump towards them and grab, their dive kicks will send them right into Ibuki’s loving arms… dood.

#14

parry, then HK.

#15

My fav.