Any learning methods recommended?


#1

I’ve found that over the last 2 years of playing SF I’m not learning at the same rate of most of my peers. It might be hard to quantify how my peers are learning his as there’s no real way to determine this except by wins or losses-but there’s more to it than that like how people learn or what they get from experience. Even if I were to exclude my peers from comparison, I know I’m not learning well enough.

Being a visual thinker I thought training videos would help, but I realized that I could only take from them a single concept-something like “oh I didn’t know that worked” even though I had probably done the same thing in training mode and never gave it a second thought.

With match videos from tournaments or online play, I only see the top layer of what’s going on, more like I’m there just watching something happen, not understanding why this or that besides the obvious basics.

Frame data seems like a good concept to understand but applying it in matches is difficult because of the randomness of the opponent. Fighting games aren’t sequential and the game isn’t based on who knows more of the frame data tables than the other guy-they’re more about adaptation.

I’ve sat down with players much more talented than myself and played many sets (Hugo101 beat me 90-3) but I don’t come out learning anything. Why after 2 years of playing do I get almost double-perfected / steamrolled by Marn or any top player?

I thought it was a vision problem so I got (needed) glasses, this may have had a slight effect on ability to focus on character models.

My reactions and coordination aren’t bad, except to throws which seem to be more about pattern recognition rather than the ability to see 2 frames of grab startup or whatever. I bet 99% of people if had to defend against a random CPU grab could not do it, it’s more about prediction.

The only way that I have more success is when people are coaching me over my shoulder during matches telling me what to do. Sounds like cheating right? Well it tells me that I haven’t been able to get my brain to actively think for itself. It’s not a matter of laziness-if it was I wouldn’t have bothered to enter over 30 tournaments, spent hundreds of dollars and countless hours playing.

Anyone have any wacky ways to try to retain information?

What’s not working:
-Videos
-Playing someone over and over
-2 years of practice
-I forget what happens during matches. If you ask me to recall what happened in the last round I have no recollection.
-Frame data is mostly irrelevant - but not useless.
-Taking notes from practice mode (sort of)
-Logging matches (in Excel)

What works:
-Someone coaching me in real-time as I’m playing.
-The time of day has something to do with how well I play but it’s somewhat inconsistent.


#2

My Suggestion:

  1. Play other fighting games, it may seem weird but having to learn a whole different game engine forces you to keep the basics from other fighting games.
  2. Play people more in you skill range if they are beating you 90-3 that is a bit too much.
    2 a. Get a group of them and practice together it don’t matter if you say playing someone over and over isn’t working for you, fighting games aren’t like normal strategy where you can sit down and think about without actually putting dem input in. You need that muscle memory!
  3. Most players don’t care about frame data you just need to know what punishable and that only comes from playing and experience
  4. Try and record your own matches and commentate on your own replays it’s affects are kinda like practicing a big speech in front of a mirror.
  5. Take a break from the game and come back fresh.
  6. Set some goals

If you got PSN ill practice with ya :slight_smile:


#3

Best learning method (in pseudocode)

While_playing_matches(from match 1 to n)
{
If you lose
ask yourself why you lost and what you could have done differently.

Else win }


#4

try things
make mistakes
learn from your mistakes


#5

Not necessarily. I entered dozens of tournaments and plugged tons of money into SF before I ever started to actively think while playing. It’s not easy, and it won’t happen like the flip of a switch one day. It’s a constant process.


#6

In my opinion i have found that doing a few tiny thing have helped me in a great way.

  1. Set your buttone in a way that is most comfterable to you - On any Street fighter game that i play i always have to set my buttons up the same way because for me its easier to remember what im doiing during matches. This also keeps me on a solid and comfterable ground while im playing.
  2. Practice - Now one got to be fantastic over night. I have logged tons of time on the practice room bot with and without and active dummy. this allows me to practice ideas and stragitys as well as let me get owned by some characters without having to worry about my record.
  3. Keep consulting with other players - These people have gone through many of the same things that your going through now. Dont get frustrated, games like this take time. Keep that in mind.
  4. Try using other characters - As an idea the problem that your having might not be the game itself but the characters that your playing. you might not feel comfortable playing that style! Try someone else, just doing that gives you some advantages. Other than that just keep at it man. Im always down to practice it you want to. Im on LIVE. Takeda01.

#7

I understand how this process goes. The guy I introduced to SF last summer has started to get the better of me (though I do feel like I’m more of a clutch player than he is. I play a LOT better under pressure than he does.)

I love me some T. Hawk but I realized lately that I was just getting burned out from using him so much. So I’ve been toying with Ryu lately. Switching up characters gives me more losses than I did before, but I get the chance to see the game from a different perspective. And spending time with another character will only expand upon your knowledge of the game. I’m a mental gamer. I’m not going to impress people with long and fancy combos in fighters (hours upon hours of “Shoryuken > FADC > Ultra” practice, and I still am damn inconsistent with it), I’m not going to whip out tons of headshots in shooters, but I’ll strategize with the best of them. Find your strength and try to shape your game around that (though obviously, keep trying to improve upon the weaknesses).


#8

When learning a new game/character, I go to training mode first obviously. But then hardest arcade mode, simply to learn when and how to use things that work in training, in a match. Record your matches if possible too.


#9

drop 4 for 2


#10

I think I’m where ur at. Maybe I’ve gotten a bit better. Definitely better execution. I don’t really practice. I think it helps to learn option selects. Also, learn to block. Sometimes I just block almost an entire match like in marvel. Especially in marvel, u don’t want to press a button or u might get stuffed. Press a button if u mean it. I play lame and eventually I get in and it surprises them. I started doing this more. I also started doing the mindgames. I don’t play sf anymore but when I go back to it I try to predict my opponent. I don’t like AE but in super mindgames and footsies are very important. I also think frustration hinders ur playing skills. I think it helps developing a main. I do not really do this until recently. I recently challenged myself by playing magneto for 3 weeks learning his tridash combos, dhc tricks, etc. Now he’s my main and i dropped shehulk dante ammy. I dedicated myself to mag to the point that playing the other chars was a hinderance. mag also fits my style and the fact that I focused on him more gave me better results. I probably drop him for a while to give some time for the other chars. IN sf Honda is the char I am most familiar with and I do best with. Knowing ur options (option selects) off the bat helps u play better.

I think defense really helps. Apply consistent pressure. Don’t be afraid to challenge the opponents skills. Look for patterns. they might do standing overhead, standing overhead, low. Keeping ur mains in tip top shape. Learning all ur options on hand to the point that u can pull them out at a crucial moment in a match. Learning every trick because that one trick might help u. Being able to switch from being offense to defense and vice versa. Saving tricks lasts might help. Also, I believe that u have to play risks. Don’t be predictable.


#11

This is for Blazblue, but most of what I’ve wrote can be applied to any fighting game:


#12

why drop those? Practicing has helped me in a tremendous way. I have found ways that i can link some non traditional moves and use some moves in ways that most dont. Perfect example. It was in training mode that i found out that Dans EX Dankukyaku when used in mid air not only keeps you there for longer but also brings you down at a faster pace in order to punish characters that move under you.
In 4. Learning other characters gives you a huge advantage. You learn what that character can and cant do. This helps you build a stragity for playing against them. And while using this does take up a great deal of time from your main and alt, its good to switch it up every now and then to change the constant of just one character. Whats your opinions on them?


#13

i was assuming he was talking about sf4 so i told him to drop 4 for 2. :wink:


#14

The SF4 engine is lame as fuck. Learn all of the option selects you possibly can, including throw break option selects since you said this is a problem area for you. Forget doing anything on reaction. Abuse the engine like all of the good players do.


#15

I completely disagree with you. I dont think that the engine is lame at all!! I just think that the players that have the upper hands are the ones that have taken the time to get to learn the ins and outs well enough to use them. If that was the case then the game wouldn’t be as popular as it is. and whats more is that most of the time the people that say that either dont play the game for one reason or another or they haven’t tried to learn the game at all. Just sayin’


#16

in bold

I’ve been playing hard for about 6 years @ this point and if there is 1 thing I’ve learned, its that competition can easily increase your game. Go out of your way to lose to people who just repeatedly rape you for free and take what you can out of those ass beatings.


#17

It sounds like your issue is in the mental aspect of fighting games. If that’s the case, then must learn to read and mix-up better if you aren’t doing so already. This is what I ask myself every time I land a mixup with Fuerte (which is like every five seconds on average).

  1. What have I done so far?
  2. What have I NOT done so far?
  3. What has my opponent done so far?
  4. What has my opponent NOT done so far?
  5. How much health and meter do we both have? - This can relate to how desperate both players are.
  6. What are my opponent’s options? - I.E. Godlike backdash, mashable DP, etc. This question will have different answers depending on the situation.

I’ve done this so much with Fuerte that it’s become Don’t Think, Feel for the most part. You can apply this to other aspects of play as well.


#18

I would advise you to try and convince yourself that popularity has nothing to do with quality. It is clear that all games will have some bad aspect. However, to assume the most popular pieces of art or products are the best ones is a classic fallacy, specially when you are talking about things being marketed in the present time. I ask that you believe it when people say that there is better music than hip hop, rap and pop, the same way I ask that you believe that SF4 is not the best fighting game.

Edit: to the original post:

If you do not understand what happens in high level matches, possibly you do not have enough knowledge of the game. I would need more details to help you. The game has many mechanics that override other aspects, such are many invulnerable moves (especially EX ones), ultras that counter a certain action always, option selects that remove certain options from the opponent, and so on. For instance, in 3rd Strike a guy usually taps the stick toward before attacking, in the air. A player from classic SF my want to try a long range air attack so as to hit the enemy around his head as he jumps forward, but due to that tapped direction, it will parry the attack and you will be wide open for punishment - e.g., cr.Forward xx super art. If you do not know about that option-select, you will be thinking there is some unreachable difference in level and guessing, when in fact it is the engine and the option-select defeating your option, the enemy just knows how to use it.

There are other things going on, certainly, but as I do not know much about SF4, I can not give details. Some footage of your playing could help.


#19

No dude… No.


#20

Actively think, like talk to yourself in your mind so you can’t go into auto-pilot. Think “oh shit what is he doing? Is he buffering ultra? If he jumps from that range can I react to divekick”. Auto-pilot is the enemy of progress.