Thats the beauty of the free market, every GMO I avoid is more for you. But i’ll stick with my paranoia if thats what it is, I do read deeply into things and form my conclusions accordingly. I consider GMOs produced by Monsanto, Cisco, etc a threat so I will avoid them and will not advise them, but each their own.
Epic rant yo. nailed it.
Killing for luxury (or religion, or ego, or entertainment, tradition, etc) is precisely what it is, all a lifestyle choice with no objective evidence that it is more beneficial healthwise. I still hear “but we ate meat as nomads” as an actual argument, I kid you not. The appeal to tradition and appeal to nature are like 50% of what I hear against veganism (even at a forensic speech competition lol). Rarely are there independent peer reviewed studies provided despite them being required as veganism boils down a falsifiable biochem argument that a human can live from plant compounds alone and thrive. And indeed, if it can be shown that vegans are in fact at any unique risk due to diet I will go back to eating meat as is the terms of my experiment with veganism. B12 is about the most technical argument anti-vegan debaters tend to offer me, its cute but fails hard as vegans make up a fringe minority and yet B12 deficiency is a regularly treated illness among the greater population (of mostly non-vegans). I even hear about the mystery vitamins I’m lacking, something esoteric that doesn’t exist in any of the nutritional software I’ve tried.
Mad props for ur rant man, I didn’t want to touch on the logistics of cruelty-driven markets cause you already did a great job.
I hear the same arguments all the time. Oh, we evolved because of meat, or, it’s natural to eat meat because life requires life to live. I used the same arguments myself, until one day I started doing the math of all the waste around me and saw how awful mass meat production is. I couldn’t look at my food the same, and slowly eased into a vegan life style starting off part time vegan which was basically all vegan at home, and ate whatever was on the menu when I went out with friends.
Even if we evolved because of a meat diet, it certainly wasn’t in the manner we eat meat today. Today, people probably have meat for every meal of the day. Even a hundred years ago it wasn’t common to eat as much meat as we do today, let alone thousands of years ago when you had to hunt and make the best of what you killed. There was no storage for meat once upon a time ago, and humans didn’t get a kill every day. There was a lot of gathering of other food and eventually growing as well.
As for how natural it is to eat meat, well, there are creatures out there called herbivores and they do just fine, just as there are carnivores as well as omnivores. And yes, it’s impossible to not kill something for food (I’ve heard the argument that we have to kill plants) as everything that fully sustains us includes some type of living organism but we don’t have to do things the way we do today. Plants grow fast, are easily sustainable, and don’t go through the torture animals go through for our luxury of living and eating.
I’ve head the vitamin deficiency argument, too. A quick google search already shows the fault in that argument since meat is not a requirement for B12 and is produced via bacteria. I’d also argue that with the way most of us in North America eat today, that we’re deficient of many nutrients we supposedly need, vegan or not. For those who eat McDonalds 3x (more like 6x) a day because they “don’t have time to cook” I’m sure are getting all the nutrition they need, right? We also have an incredible will to survive, and you can see human survival in places where they don’t have access to all the nice vitamin varieties we’re supposed to have. Might not be ideal, but you can see the extent of how much shit the human body can go through and live without all the fancy stuff we have in the developed world.
Also, wild caught species such as fish are dangerously low year after year as more and more people consume it. Not only do we come close to causing harm to our ecosystem in trying to meet a growing market demand but we continue to expand and expand on these markets. A very important question one needs to ask their self is, since we can barely meet the demand our animal industry and nearly fish species out of existence in the current state of the world, what happens when the rest of the world starts living just like the USA and other developed nations? What then when the rest of humanity demands to eat the same way we do and live luxurious lifestyles? How on earth can we meet that kind of demand? Imagine all the life that would have to die for that.
Check it out. Wild caught fish as an example, can’t meet the demand in the seafood industry. So eventually, they made aquaculture to farm fish. Now, demand for other species is growing, such as lobsters, and they’re developing ways to farm those and other species like tuna (currently not successful, yet…) It should be a wake up call that our current ecosystem can’t sustain our demand for such luxurious things as dead fish and dead animals on our plates. I ask again, what happens when the rest of the world is on par with us? It’s unfathomable.
Something needs to change. If not for ethics and morality, than at the very least, sustainability. We can’t keep going on like this.
I can’t believe I’m actually getting wtf’d for this, lol. You guys suck.
In other words, you chickened out and couldn’t accept reality.
We cured and preserved meat when we couldn’t store it. That’s how bacon’s made, btw.
Humans are not herbivores. Humans are omnivores. Life exists to die, animals exist to be consumed by others.
Don’t compare the McDonalds diet to a balanced diet. Those primitive people eat meat, btw.
Rationing, that’s what.
The rest of the world is much bigger than the USA, and we deal just fine right now.
We can, and are.
I’m glad you put the disclaimer about not turning this thread into a peachy vegan discussion. Bullshit. You knew exactly what you wanted this thread to be, as proven by your own posts. A fucking soapbox for vegans. You know what? My food shits on your food.
How many vegans does it take to change a lightbulb?
Two. One to change the bulb, the other to check the packaging for animal-based ingredients in a fucking lightbulb.
This is after all a thread intended to bring out the veggies or vegans in the community, why are you even here? Go to KFC or something. Having hecklers around bull baits technical discussions - cause and effect.
Also,* Soap boxing* is a layman attempt to describe pontificating. Here’s the problem kiddo, when we bring up things that are falsifiable we are no longer proposing a dogma. Your tantrum (and lightbulb jokes? didnt know those existed anymore) is to be expected as you are holding to a losing position, being defensive in that situation is natural. Now, calm your man-tits and read the title of this page. Read closely, I know its hard. This is for vegans, not for you. I made the disclaimer as I didn’t want another boring technical debate I just want to talk about food or light subjects here.
I try to do the “free range/grass fed” thing when it comes to eating animal products. I think the whole argument of “humans aren’t meant to eat meat” is absolutely absurd (we have incisors for a reason), but the animal products will have all kinds of shit in it that you don’t want in the typical locations of raising 'em, from hormones to natural body chemicals released due to trauma that just taint it all. You know how much more tender a piece of meat will be if the animal isn’t absolutely horrified before its death? If the last thing they do is tense up, it makes for poor meat.
With all that shit going down, it’s unsurprising people go vegan these days. It just sucks 'cause animal products are far and away the best forms of protein we can consume. That, and a vegan lifestyle is fucking expensive. So is a “free range” lifestyle, for that matter.
That being said, any of you vegans in here obtain telekinetic powers yet?
I will avoid the tooth debate as its documented to be null with regard to dietary predisposition, plenty of great lectures on YouTube. That said, I will not argue that humans are “meant” to eat meat, as they had to at one point. Many believe our venture from the bonobo-esque diet we came from (we still have the same tongue and intestinal layout) occurred due to a predictable food shortage. All that said, meat is an after-the-fact development. I hold it was useful for a time before we could properly farm, now its arcane and ego-driven (as is the case for meat consumption among Chimpanzees, its a display of dominance).
I must say, please do not propose the “veganism is expensive” argument, its a myth. I can live off fruit for $35 per week, rice is ~$1 per 1000 calories or less, add peas (dirt cheap) and you complete the two missing BCAA’s. Mexican food is dirt cheap, easily appropriated for vegans. Beans + tortilla. Vitamins are cheaper for vegans, Kale will eclipse most rivals and is cheaper than chard. Vegan powers tend be strange behavior from animals, clear skin, good cardio, etc. Telekinesis would be awesome tho. Imagine multitasking with invisible arms. Another strange power among aging vegan women is looking younger, the side effect for vegan males is dreadlocks form after about 3 years being vegan.
I skimmed over the thread, but what is OP’s rationale on being vegan?
Perhaps you should read your first post before you start telling others to read the title, I seem to remember something about not being preachy there.
i’ll edit whenever I got more time but pretty much the sentiment of “killing animals” is blown out of proportion. I’ve heard that vegan leader comparing chicken farms to the holocaust and then saying “it’s slaughter” and how could you eat something that has suffered for your pleasure, etc etc. Well, according to that logic, eating plants is ok because? Oh right, plants “don’t suffer”, they just die. Cool story. Without trolling, these people are saying that if let’s say a cow was not raised the way it is now but instead raised in a sort of theme park life with massages and stuff and then put to sleep (the same way dogs are put down “humanely” whenever they are suffering too much) in a painless way you would be ok with that right? So it’s not about “zomg killing animals is bad” because you would still not touch that cow.
It’s a flawed argument that leads into a healthy lifestyle.
I’ll also comment later on how people have seem to forgotten that some species exist solely because humans “made” them. Like the dog or cow. Dogs didn’t exist. They are actually wolves mutated (Canis lupus and Canis familiaris) by early humans that took them to help them with tasks such as hunting/herding/company/etc. Same thing with cows. Cows are a mutation/evolution/whatever of a wild bovine that existed before. Not a single wild bovine contains the amount of fat and eats as much as cow. Cows are the result of years of farming. Dogs aren’t wild animals. Cows aren’t wild animals. Leave a cow for a year in the wild, see if she is still alive. Diseases, lack of food, predators, etc will have your cow medium rare before your hippie mind realizes they can’t survive on their own. Same shit happens with dogs, all those street dogs barely survive on trash and whatever they find before they spread diseases or get become road kill. So is it ok to raise them for us to consume their meat? I don’t see any “ethical” reason why not. Are the conditions in the US too extreme maybe when it comes to animal treatment? Sure, lobbies will probably keep it that way independently of your life choice. Could they be raised differently? Yes, Europe and Canada already do. Should we stop eating meat then? Up to you but there are options out there if you are against animal cruelty just so you know.
Jokes about vegans thread? Okay!
How many vegans does it take to change a lightbulb?
They’ll never change anything.
On a serious note, was a vegetarian for the first 16 years of my life, was the last person to find out. Technically a pescatarian or whatever since fish was allowed. Still eat a fair amount of Quorn and Sosmix stuff and at work, ordering vegetarian is the only way to guarantee fresh food.
I’ve mentioned it before on here, but Hugh Fearnley Wittingstall’s book, Veg Everyday, is great and you’ll learn a lot from it.
Anyone in New York or LA should check out Babycakes NYC, vegan pancakes, waffles, donuts, frosted cupcakes, you name it.
Alright man, I’ll chill back on the jokes. Sorry for being offensive, but I’ve had mean vegans try to tell me what I should be eating and it pisses me off. But that doesn’t give me the right to be rude to you. Sorry.
For what it’s worth, I try to buy local beef and pork from the butcher, and I always get free range, organic fed chicken and eggs.
I have a question for you though- what is your stance on honey? Are bees considered animals and is honey an animal product? That’s a serious question, and if you can answer it I’ll stay out of your thread and not heckle anymore
Ur not offensive, ur morelike the guy that sits behind u in a theater cackling at the non-funny scenes. just noisy.
Dude, I totally do that!
My rationale at first was that it was an experiment. I was into local game and organic meat before, then I decided to see what would happen if I adopted a vegan diet. So far so good. The meat I consumed was organic chicken, elk, venison, and salmon. So I figured the confirmation bias of switching from bad meats to good veggies would be eliminated as I already ate the good stuff.
My primary sport is trail running, but its rattlesnake season so I cant
I assumed as much. I don’t take u seriously at all tho so you can act out all u want.
Well that’s a relief. I’m not here to be taken seriously, obviously.
But seriously, what’s up with honey?