The triple tatsu thing he did versus Yun before going into the EX DP > throw were both created by me. I invented the triple tatsu after Super days before EVO2011. The EX DP > throw he did wasn’t a mistake. I made up a few crossup DP setups with Ryu in 2012 as a member of MMS after training with BISDA’S Ken. He copies all Ryu tech and doesn’t even use it correctly a lot of the time. LiangHubbbbs showed Daigo is prone to using other players tech.
Yeah, I just can’t see how that would be a viable strategy:
Daigo had a substantial life lead and a cornered, knocked down opponent
He would not have been able to chip out Bonchan on his wake-up
Daigo had one and (let’s say) three quarters of stock
Granted, I can see how by doing EX uppercut as early as he did he was still able to get behind Bonchan and back throw him fairly quickly, but I don’t see how the risk of backdash or throw tech at that moment wouldn’t make an alternate strategy, that uses no meter, a more useful one; not to mention cornering himself.
It’s all up to personal preference I suppose, but in that particular situation with a massive life lead, more meter than my opponent and a round up on them, I can’t see how that meter burn was anything other than a mistake that he managed to turn fortuitous for himself. I suppose he followed the old adage, “Don’t get predictable.”
What triple tatsu thing are you referring to? The only time he uses three tatsus is when he uses three short tatsus to quickly close the distance after the Shinku Hadoken. Is that what you’re referring to?
My guess is he went to whiff lp dp and made a mistake. That’s what I do in that situation if I don’t want to expose myself…and I learned it watching Daigo. Some people assume to often that everything a top player does is for a reason or on purpose. They make mistakes, too. If he’d have gotten punished, everyone would know it was a mistake, but because he landed a throw, it’s the new “Daigo mixup.” This is a setup with Ken. He’ll land a shoulder throw, whiff hp dp. He lands on the oppisite side and recovers in time to hit meaty, but Ryu’s ex dp has a lot more frames. Daigo could have gotten punished.
I was really just humoring Kaizen’s position that there was some over arching strategy going on in those few seconds in the match. There’s no way I would ever assume that that was a set up of some kind, even if it came from the horses mouth.
Why waste a meter for a throw set up that puts you in the corner, that boggles my mind…[/quote]
You didn’t watch my version of the setup… I didn’t use EX DP as shown in the video I linked to you. Please don’t label me as someone else or accuse me of behaving a certain way without asking questions first to determine if your assumptions are correct. You can label or accuse me of anything specifically related to SF4 after you’ve done research and asked questions while actually allowing me to “enhance” your understanding with answers. It is very sad seeing how often the answers are giving to people in the FGC but they gloss over them for the sake on tearing others down especially when the answers provided were shared to build the competitive FGC up. That is why many strong players tell me they don’t like coming here to help…
[quote= I suppose he followed the old adage, “Don’t get predictable.”
What triple tatsu thing are you referring to? The only time he uses three tatsus is when he uses three short tatsus to quickly close the distance after the Shinku Hadoken. Is that what you’re referring to?[/quote]
You are correct! Thank you for asking questions and working ideas out in your mind to help you determine what you think about the EX DP cross up. I don’t say that to irritate “Finkledoodoo.” The SF4 FGC doesn’t tend to ask questions.
The first version of the triple tatsu I created in July 2011 was a cross up version on my opponent’s wake up. The second version I came up with was the safe jump version which is the one Daigo performed. He defeated the purpose of the safe jump concept by performing a meaty cr.MP on Yun’s wake up. That is why I’m here to let you know about how much he takes from others like Jyobin as LiangHubbbbs displayed along with not even understanding the ideas behind the tech. Not understanding what he is doing because he didn’t create the tech is why the Vega at SEA2012 didn’t get hit by Ryu’s unblockable after throw. Daigo performed the Balrog version on Vega and then performed the Vega version on Balrog in the same tournament.
P.S. As long as I’m able to produce more demonstration videos, you’ll see what I’m “hinting” at here…
Some people don’t ask questions and assume that others assume things.
Some people assume others haven’t been tracking a top player’s adjustment in tactics for years.
Some people assume others don’t upload specific tech and watch a specific player use it then loop the pattern over and over for years to establish a pattern and history of proof.
What others think is a mistake was done on purpose but done incorrectly because the top player doesn’t understand the reasoning behind the tech.
As I stated in my original post on this subject. “I made up a few crossup DP setups with Ryu in 2012 as a member of MMS after training with BISDA’S Ken.” His Ken inspired me to innovate cross up DP tech with Ryu since Ryu and Ken are similar characters.
While innovating that tech after training with BISDA’s Ken I noticed EX DP wasn’t a good choice as you stated. That is why in the video I linked in my original post I used HP DP.
Some people assume that top players are gods and don’t have to copy from mere humans. This is why many players won’t allow themselves to believe my statements after I’ve provided evidence. Dannkk I don’t think he is a god who can’t make mistakes. That is the very reason why I’m even sharing Ryu tech and understanding. Most players see him that way and I’m here to actually expose his mistakes as you see in the posts I’ve made above. You are just used to others being fanboys and believing he can do no wrong so you plastered that label on me which is inappropriate because you’ve not asked questions or sought to gain more proof.
P.S. I’ve created some proof for discussions like this one.
Published on Jan 17, 2013 - (I’ll meet you in an XBL party to explain how I know this video triggered the one below) http://youtu.be/CwOGliCvpDE
I’m sad knowing you didn’t actually express sincere interest…
P.S. I’m still waiting for someone to show up on XBL to actually expand their context by talking in a party instead of waving assistance away in disbelief which is something anyone can do. I invest time into mature people who take the “path” of most resistance in a learning environment. I’m not saying you aren’t mature. I’m talking to the thread because when offered the chance to learn about something rare and secret the thread has shunned that chance away in apathy so far. I know someone will sit down with me in a party chat on XBL and grow as a player and person.
I don’t know if that’s a good or bad thing yet… /copy/pasta
I didn’t label you as anything, I said you remind me of someone. I said that because Bossnasti says that he does stuff and creates stuff to help the community, but his people skills make him intolerable to his community (as said by his community members.) When I say you remind me of that guy and you go into a rant telling us/me to, “research” you, and ending in, “That is why many strong players tell me they don’t like coming here to help…” I can’t help but come to the conclusion that its a bad thing that you reminding me of him instead of a good thing. It could have been a good thing if you reminded me of the good things about that guy, like his attempts to help his community even though they forsake him, but you come across as having that guy’s bad people skills. WHATEVER, I don’t even care. It’s an online forum, I just want good information, not friends.
Also, I checked you out a long time ago, I checked out your online pages and asked the Philly and MD guys about you. Nobody had anything to say about you, I’m guessing you go by a different name offline or you don’t play in my area (I think one of you web pages say you’re in CT…)
You lost me brah…
Besides the opening question, everyone I’ve seen post looks to have “worked ideas out in their minds” and has come to the conclusion that it was a mistake.
I find it hard that you don’t understand why so many people would be skeptical over your claims to have created something that 1. clearly looks like a mistake and 2. is done in a different way. To assume that instead of making a simple execution mistake that Daigo took a poor set up for the situation, utilized it incorrectly and you created it is hard to stomach. Trust me, the forum users definitely worked it out in their minds…
ps. I’m not irritated, I just want to help or be helped. All else doesn’t matter, besides maybe the credibility of the person who gave the help…
"Some people don’t ask questions and assume that others assume things."
Circular reasoning. You are not saying anything…
"Some people assume others haven’t been tracking a top player’s adjustment in tactics for years."
Anyone who does anything competitive does that in any sport or game…
"Some people assume others don’t upload specific tech and watch a specific player use it then loop the pattern over and over for years to establish a pattern and history of proof."
Not only is anything put on the net up for grabs, in the days of secrecy, anything done in tournament became free use. I’ve said stuff on the forums for Modok that I’ve seen Mexican players copy. People know this concept dude…
"What others think is a mistake was done on purpose but done incorrectly because the top player doesn’t understand the reasoning behind the tech."
It’s still a mistake in the end. If he had done a fierce dp, than this debate could have feasible, but blowing meter for a throw set up is just a no. It’s too much risk and if a top player does that on purpose, he sucks and won’t be a top player long unless it was a hard read on someone he plays often that he couldn’t open up. That’s a huge “unless”…
"Some people assume that top players are gods and don’t have to copy from mere humans."
Who the hell assumes that top players are gods and don’t steal tech? Everyone knows Yipes and the first thing he says when somebody does something good is, “that’s mine, I’m stealing that”…
"You are just used to others being fanboys and believing he can do no wrong so you plastered that label on me which is inappropriate because you’ve not asked questions or sought to gain more proof."
Nobody labeled you anything…
"Published on Jan 17, 2013 - (I’ll meet you in an XBL party to explain how I know this video triggered the one below)"
It’s pretty obvious that the tech shown in the tutorial was being used by champ.
This is what I’m talking about when I mention the bad people skills. Why even respond to that? If you want to help him, why not go to the threads where he asks questions and answer them? He clearly has some type of respect for me, that’s because I help him out when he asks. If you want to help us out, there are tons of questions being asked in these threads. If you want to put some stuff out there, start a thread and spill your guts out on it, asking people to chat with you on xbl is not only inconvenient, but also kind of creeper. If you put your good shit on a thread, I’ll participate and I’m pretty sure that the other decent lab rats will join up like ilitirate and rice eater…
Here’s my issue: I don’t see a concise answer to any question that’s been asked, just a statement that you came up with some Ryu tech and then that tournament players have utilized that tech in tournaments. It comes off as though you want this thread to concede that you came up with innovative Street Fighter 4 tech, but then you dance around the description of the tech in question; like a Snake Oil sales man that assures his consumers that his product is top notch and 100% reliable, but always masks the answers to his questions to shield his house of cards. I’m not trying to say that that’s your intent, but I still have nothing but questions about your position on this tatsu and SRK corner cross-up “tech”. I was literally asking you to explain the set up of this triple tatsu “thing”; specifically describe a scenario that would lead into it, and how it works during a match; not tell me that you came up with it, I couldn’t care less who came up with it.
This is what I was referring to when I wrote that I was “humoring” you. We’re having a discussion about this odd occurrence in a match and you come along and claim to have created it, and than go on a diatribe about how Daigo takes tech from other players. All I was seeking was clarification about what specifically the EX DP (after giving my own thoughts on why it doesn’t seem useful to me) in the corner effects and how and when you’d use it, instead we get more unverifiable claims. You remind me of these kids I used to encounter in school: we’d be at the cafeteria tables or the yard and we’d be talking about some game or skill, and these kids (who we weren’t actually hanging with, though not specifically excluding either) would sort of insert themselves into our circle and boast about how supreme they were at a particular skill or game, but when asked to perform that skill or play the game they’d always have these host of excuses as to why they couldn’t show us right there, that there had to be these specific set of circumstances in place and time in order for them to show us, and it couldn’t be now; some other time. It’s like they wanted us to believe that they were good at what they claimed, but were afraid to demonstrate it, fearing they wouldn’t live up to their own claims.
Do you see what I’m saying? We ask a question about your boast, and instead of an actually conclusive answer (i.e. an explanation of the situation, or a flat out “no”) we get this contrived bullshit about Daigo stealing tech and using it incorrectly, making apropos nada references to SEA Majors and you ranting about XBL party chat and “rare secrets”. No one’s “waving assistance away in disbelief”, but the claim you make could be explained on this thread in plain English.
If you’re going to make a claim, be prepared to have people ask you to back it up with some evidence.