Anyone feel like critiquing what I'm doing wrong

abel

#1

I started playing SSF4 around November 1st of last year, and I switched to maining Abel a little over a month ago. I still have a lot to learn, so I might be asking questions that might seem common knowledge to everyone.

[media=youtube]AiOOG5MF5h8[/media]

Well, I went into training mode today, took 4 combos and recorded myself doing them. I left the inputs on so you can see exactly what I was doing, and I even practiced each combo from facing both sides in case anyone notices a difference.

I’m looking for not only the what I I need to fix, but (more importantly IMO) the why and how. For example, don’t just say “quit mashing lk in combo 3”, but more like “You only should do 2 LK and nothing more in Combo 3. If you spam LK the negative edge from that button press has a better chance of dropping the link to s.lp” (I have no idea if that’s true, or if negative edge is something that would factor here. It just sounded technical).

One of the things I already am curious about is how come my FADCs are coming out as focus attacks. There are several times I did forward during the mp+mk and a forward right afterwards (which should make me dash) but it only comes out as shoulders. If it matters any, I actually have focus set to my 4th button on my stick.

The combo’s aren’t like pro-only combos, but they are complex enough to where I can’t just do them 100% of the time. I know the text is a little messed up, so here are the combos:

Combo 1: c.mp > mp.CoD FADC c.hp XX Ultra 1 - 13 Hit

Combo 2: c.hp XX lp.roll > c.lp > lp.roll XX lp.Torndao Throw - 3 Hit

Combo 3: f+mk XX Dash > c.lk > c.lk > s.lp. > s.mp XX f+mk XX Dash > c.mp > mp.CoD FADC c.hp XX Ultra 2 - 4 Hit + 13 Hit

Combo 4 (corner): f+mk XX Dash > c.mp > mp.CoD FADC c.hp XX c.lp > lp.roll XX c.HP XX Ultra 1 - 5 Hit + 11 Hit

I put in Combo 2 cause I kept having a lot of problems with c.hp > roll. I would usually get either 1 elbow hit then roll, or both elbow hits, then no roll. I just happened to nail them when I was recording. So if someone has any tips on that I would appreciate it.

Anyway, if someone feels up to watching 16 minutes of me dropping combos to tell me what I’m doing wrong, I would appreciate it


#2

Damn… 16 minutes of dropping combos… The first two took 3 min ish, the other two took 13 mins… wtf? I dont think anyone is willing to watch the video in full.

Not going to go into execution stuff first, you need to…

Learn the timing of the combos, find the timing on your own and repeat again and again. You kept missing the cr.hp after the FADC most because of this, oh and FA instead of FADC probably due to you letting of FA before doing the dash, you need to hold the FA until the dash comes out.

Combo 2, 3 and 4 arent even combos(edit: ok just realized the mixed up part, but still, you wrote combo). Its nitpicking but lk roll, not lp. There’s no reason to use lp TT in that “combo”, use hp TT in that case.

… and then I gave up. You clearly have no idea of what you were doing…

I recommend you check this thread out instead, and practice those stuff instead of your pseudo-combos.

http://shoryuken.com/f250/emo-mercenarys-arsenal-abel-combo-thread-210922/

maybe before that you should check this thread

http://shoryuken.com/f250/takes-more-than-brute-strength-abel-beginners-thread-246164/

oh and those combos are farrrrrrrrrrr away from being “pro”… really, check out the combo thread first.


#3

you’re pressing too many buttons and your not pressing the same buttons each time, so there is no consistancy to your execution.

for example with mp cod, fadc, cr.hp, ultra i use 4 button presses, d + mp (first button press),d/f,f release mp (negative edge), at the forward point immediately hit mp + mk (button press 2), tap forward once to dash, cr.hp (button press 3), lp mp hp for the ultra (button press 4).

you look to be learning the basics so make sure you don’t develop bad habits (mashing) now because they will be really difficult to correct later. If you learn to combo with the proper inputs you’ll find it much easier in the long run.

After a little bit of practice with any combo you’ll notice a rythm, this rythm will help you become consistant at executing the combo. you’re trying to train your muscle memory which will be impossible if you’re inputs are always different.


#4

dang, you guys actually sat down and watched it?


#5

lol only watched till the 3 minute mark.


#6

Sorry, didn’t realize I couldn’t post here as a beginner. Last time I asked for beginner help in another section of the forum, I was told I should post a video that way people can actually see what I’m having problems with.

But I do appreciate the constructive advice. I’m working on correcting the specific things mentioned already, and am looking for more specific things to work on.


#7

Who said anything about you couldnt post? No one. Although imo it is a better move for a “beginner” to first read up on the basic stuff in the stickied thread, instead of just askin questions.

I doubt anyone is willing to watch through the whole video, especially after seeing the first 3 mins. You seem like you lack the understanding of the most basic stuff for abel, thats why I recommended the beginners thread. As for combos and stuff, practice real, practical combos(refer to combo thread) first before moving to weird stuff that doesnt even combo/have practical use.

There’s nothing more to be said on this matter. Rest is really up to you.


#8

Man, I’m trying to write this without sounding ungrateful or salty (honestly, I am), but this is how it’s starting to look from my perspective:

Me: “Man, I’m having problems with a lot of things with Abel. I’ll see about asking for help on SRK. I’ll make a video with my inputs shown so people can actually see what I’m doing. I’ll do a routine to go through so that people can know what I am attempting. And when I make the post I’ll try and make it known that I’m looking for specifics on what I am doing wrong”

1st person: “lol, I’m not watching all that crap. You suck. You know nothing about Abel. There are tons of things you are doing wrong, and I easily recognize a lot of them from the video. but I won’t point them all of out. Instead read this, read this, and training mode moar!”

2nd person: “here are a few things I see wrong. here is an example of what you are doing wrong, and here is how it should be. try doing this and practice more”

3rd person: “el oh el, this scrub”

1st Person: “el oh el, this scrub indeed!”

I’ve read the stickies you’ve posted. I’ve practiced the simple combos that are in there. My problem seems to be when I’m attempting to keep the momentum going when I have my opponent being defensive. That’s why I made a couple non-combo combos. (You really really hung up on the fact I called them combos. is routines better?). I wanted to do something that gives the most information so if people wanted to, they can analyze everything.

There several things that I do wrong that I notice, but I can only describe them from my point of view. The inputs are not biased like I am. I can write a book about what I’m wanting to do, how it looks from my end, how the game won’t let me do this, how my opponent can always do that, but typically when I write really long descriptive posts, people do what you did with the video; they only read the beginning, then give simple non-answer answers. “hm…he’s dropping a lot combos. read the thread and go to training mode” can easily be explained as “you’re pressing too many buttons and your not pressing the same buttons each time, so there is no consistancy to your execution.” You keep telling me to read the stickies, which means you know exactly what I should be working on, and you know the information is on the thread. I’m feeling like I asked “why is the sky blue?” and getting laughed at and handed a book on Astronomy. Sure, the answers in there, and I will read the whole book, but if I seeked people out for this specific answer, and you know it’s on page 217, why not show me the page?

I know I’m coming off as whiny. I don’t care. Regardless of how I look, I’m still looking for answers, and I will still take any help people want to give. So, as I said, if anyone has any tips for me, I would appreciate it. If you want, I can go more indept on how it looks from my end.


#9

with stuff like “F.mk dash cr.mp” <— not worth analyzing. Answer me this, why would you ever wanna do f.mk into cr.mp?

Its not like I posted stuff just to irritate you or anything, answers/pointers/tips/opinions/whatever were given, sure I might sound like an asshole with the lol and shit but you wanna get offended by things like that?

imo you should be grateful some people actually responded to your thread because i doubt anyone else will, due to the nature of it. I tried to be nice but you have to go all butthurt? People can only give you tips to a certain extent, the rest is up to you to practice(again and again and again) and learn on your own(especially things like combos/execution).

… and yeah, thats it from me. good luck gettin any help here with that “feed-me” attitude. I gave you a few stuff to work on in my first reply and you’re being an ungrateful prick to respond the way you did.

Oh I can come up with fuckin analogies too. I gave you links to those threads is like, you making a thread about trying to solve some calculus problem but you got a bunch of things wrong like symbols, structure, even the numbers dont look like numbers that give me the impression that you know shit about math in the first place, so i gave you “basic math 101”,“sample calculus questions for beginners” for you to read and learn the fundamentals before even trying to go into calculus.

/thread


#10

good advice was already given.

if you didn’t read what was already said: links require timing and precision. learn the timing of the inputs instead of mashing, which leads to your inconsistency. your fa comes out when you fadc because you don’t hold the focus long enough. the stickies are a great source to help you since you’re just starting out.

what more do you want? finding information in a sticky is that hard for you? really? it’s organized for a certain reason… and it takes like 5-10 minutes to read.

give a better example.


#11

:tup:

INDEED!

First preheat the oven to 350 degrees, then practice practice practice… go play real people get your ass handed to you, get really salty and use the anger to motivated you to practice more… repeat… until creamy… then incert nub cakes into the oven… let them cool for 20 minutes and enjoy…

alright that was lame… in all seriousness… pick 2 or 3 combos and master them. Watch videos of abel players doing stuff and see what you can learn…

Here:http://shoryuken.com/f250/abels-mix-ups-247715/

link to a thread about some interesting qualities about abel, they’re prolly new to you and it’s something you didn’t ask for, but it’s very good and you should watch the videos there, you’ll be glad you did.


#12

Let me try this a different way:

I used lp TT because of the extra reach. I seem to miss grab through people a lot more when I have been using hp TT, but I find myself connecting with more grabs with lp TT. I would rather sacrifice the extra damage from the hp one to get the grab with the lp one. This is not just in the combo I listed, but in a lot of instances where I try roll > grab, or dash grab, or stepkick grab. My reasoning is “if using hp TT seems to be missing a lot more, and lp TT hits a lot more, I should use lp TT”. So,could you explain, why I should always use hp TT?

OK then; what’s wrong with my “combos”? I’m not defending them by thinking they are perfect. OK, they are flawed. Why are they flawed? I’m not asking “what should I be doing” I’m asking about “why shouldn’t I be doing what I’m doing”. Say I practice “combo” 4 and I can do it 100% of the time: Why shouldn’t I be using it? Is it because other combos do more damage, or are safer? Is it because it’s not on the pre-approved list of combos from the combo thread? Is it because if I do the “combo” enough times, I will put a curse on myself and lose all my hair? Shit man, why? lol

Sure, but you can just as easily say “I see you are having a lot of problems with symbols, structure, and it looked like your numbers are even wrong. Here, read this book. Chapter 3 goes over symbols and structure. Practice problems 5-10”. Instead, you just handed me a book and said “Here you go. Figure it out yourself”. But if you want to quit with analogies, we can. :slight_smile:

Now this is the type of constructive analysis I was looking for. I’m assuming your getting to the point that I should be doing f+mk dash s.hp instead of cr.mp. I’ve practiced that as well, but I am having an incredibly hard time landing it. Like once out of every 40 or 50 tries. It seems like I’m always too late and only get a 4 hit combo. Now coupled with the fact that my only means of playing against other people in online, I’m incredibly leary on trying to nail that online because it seems impossible. I’m still practicing it, but for the time being, I’m using c.mp. Now, your turn: why shouldn’t I use f+mk dash cr.mp?

I have sort of a question about this. I understand what you mean, but I start getting wishy-washy on the topic of execution. For example: cr.mp > mp.CoD. I’ve always inputted it as d+mp, d/f, f+mp. Someone replied earlier with “d + mp (first button press),d/f,f release mp (negative edge)”. Is mine wrong, and his right? Is both right, but his “more” right? The sticky thread doesn’t cover something like this. Technically, my input will do mp > mp.CoD. It’s not wrong, but it can be viewed as mashy. Or am I actually wrong?

Lets continue with the combo: FADC, cr.hp. With the FADC, I read what hfz69 wrote about me releasing it too early, and I’m making more of a conscious effort to hold it a little bit longer. After the FADC, I noticed I do 2x (sometimes 3, but I’m trying to correct that) cr.hp. I consciously practiced only doing it once, and it seems like I’m either too early and it doesn’t come out, or too late and the combo drops. I guess I unknowlingly started double tapping the hp button to make sure I get it at the appropriate time. Now, I realize the correct way of doing it it to probably plink it, but it seems like it’s the same logic. If doing it once has a greater chance of missing, then double tapping it increases the range of me hitting it if I’m constantly missing. I’m not saying this is the be-all-end-all way of looking at it, but this is how I process something like this.

On a similiar topic: muscle memory. I think I understand the point of it. It’s purpose is to burn the execution into your head so you don’t have to consciously think about it and instead can be thinking about other things as well, right? I have a slight problem with this though. If the point is just burning it in your head so you can perform it 100% of the time, why is execution so important? For example: Ultra 1: d, d/f, f, d, d/f, f, KKK. It can also be inputted as d, f, d, f, KKK or I’ve even done it as something crazy like d, f, b, d, d/f, f, KKK. The reason I bring this up is because if the game system is lenient on inputs, why is correct inputs so important for muscle memory if the purpose is just for mindless execution?

(Please, please don’t take this as me saying I’m trying to skip out on being consistent. I’m working on that.)

OK, I’ve been typing this up for the last 2 hours, and I have to do some paperwork. I’ll come back to this to finish answering questions and maybe answer new ones.


#13

"I’ll come back to this to finish answering questions and maybe answer new ones. "

seriously? :lol:

I dont know why maybe Im just nice but Id answer some of the questions you typed above(no matter how stupid some of them are), but like other people, I got other shit to do and Id suggest you use the time to actually read and understand those threads and actually THINK “WHY?” instead of hoping for someone to do all the work for you.

edit: maybe not. good luck. lol

edit2: i can see some people already answered some of the questions for you. no need any more input from me. sorry if i sounded like an asshole but sometimes i get ticked off easily when people askin for help and then tryna sound like a smartass.


#14

The two hours spent writing this could have been better spent in training mode IMO.

But seriously, just slow down everything you’re doing and really be conscious of what your hands are doing.
Make sure you’re hitting your diagonals and mash less.

You’re still pretty new to this so I’d spend your time more “organicly” in training mode. Instead of making it some ridiculous 15 minute workout regimen, just get a good feeling for all of your attacks and movement. The more familiar you get with just pressing the buttons and knowing how they work will yield better results in the long run IMO.

You shouldn’t use forward kick dash into low strong because you’ll get thrown/counter hit out of it, it’s too slow in that situation and it only combos on counter hit. To keep things simple for you after forward kick dash, just always do stand fierce, throw, tornado throw, low short or block.

It couldn’t hurt to just watch higher level players and straight up XCOPY their movements and attacks too. It’ll bring you some success. Once you get a better understanding of the game you’ll know WHY it works and be able to develop your own style from there.

Good luck


#15

After that reset you’re in range for fierce TT - more damaged so why would you choose to use light for less damage? All three versions would be in range to hit - Tip - learn your ranges of TT and choose the highest damaging one based on if you are in range. Specially if it’s off a mix up - you should know your mix up inside out - Can I C.FP here and have it hit meaty? Is im opp in range for a grab? Am I close enough that a DP from my opp will miss? ect ect.

It’s not “HP TT is missing more” it’s “I don’t know when to use the correct version of my TT” So if you learn your ranges it will help you. After reading your posts I don’t think anything else I can say will get through so I won’t answer anything else.


#16

Someone called this to my attention, so I’ll try to help you a bit.

Abel is by no means an easy character for execution, but I don’t believe it’s extremely hard. Your main issue is you’re practicing combos which really have very little point, other than for flash. If you’re practicing just for flash, you can completely ignore me. However, I’ll give you a few points of advice.

You can negative edge CoDs. I personally don’t, as I find it easier just to press a button again. However, since you can’t combo a cr.mp into a fierce CoD, the option of using negative edge is available.

On focus dashes, simplify your input to be:
:mp::mk::f:
:f:
That personally made things a lot easier for me to execute. And don’t use a button solely for focus; just press mp+mk. Sometimes taking shortcuts will place you further behind.

Take your combos one step at a time, and take them slowly. I’m trying to learn Viper before AE (for casual play reasons; I like the character), so I can sympathize with execution struggles. On a combo such as f+mk, s.hp xx fierce CoD, FADC, cr.hp, U1, you have two relatively difficult links. The f+mk, s.hp is a one frame link; plink it. If you don’t know how to plink, there’s a detailed enough explanation in my (somewhat unfinished) Beginner’s Thread. The fierce CoD, FADC, cr.hp is a 2-frame link. You can get by without plinking it, but why wouldn’t you?

Get used to f+mk, s.hp xx fierce CoD, FADC cr.hp, lk roll, fierce FS. Get used to ending that combo with a naked FS, rather than with a roll. Get used to finishing it with an U1.

From there, get used to your basic oki. After a tornado throw, dash forward once and do an lk or mk roll, ends up in front or behind. After a falling sky, backdash and do an lk or mk roll, ends up in front or behind. After a tornado throw, roll forward and do a cross-up, j.mk to bait SRKs. There’s an entire document filled with these, but those are the most basic.


#17

HAHAHAHAHA Delete this thread plz


#18

I was at work when I wrote that out, so I couldn’t do training mode. I used to bring my TV and xbox to work, but no vehicle makes that impossible now

OK, thank you. I was going to stop using c.mp after the stepkick because of the feedback in the thread, but I was still curious as to why pepole say not to use it. It seemed the common answer was “because it’s not on the list”.

OK, I see. but maybe I’m running across oddities, or I’m not just fully seeing it, but [media=youtube]XObaF6sNq_Q"[/media] Too slow? Too fast? Counter Hit? Is it something to do with Seth’s hit box? Was I too close to him?

OK, so after practicing this, here something I’m curious about: If I plink the s.hp to hp CoD with negative edge after f+mk, it comes out EX CoD. This seems like a waste of meter, or wrong. So looking at the entire combo, here’s what I’m processing it:

I don’t know the best way to type it out, so I made a picture. sorry

So, I thought maybe should use negative edge on the s.hp, hp.CoD. but like I said, it’s coming out EX CoD because of the plink. That’s how I look at it when I break it down, I’m curious as to how the people who are experienced broke it down when they were learning it.

For what reason? It’s been helpful to me despite the people slamming me. I have no idea what you are trying to get out of me. Are you expecting me to to get mad and quit? Regardless of how much you want to laugh at me, the point remains that I am having a hard time figuring this out on my own, and I have questions. If it means that I have to get laughed at, or insulted to get those answers, fine; then that’s what it takes.


#19

In this case it was because Seth was still in hit stun, remember that if you score a counter hit then the opp is in hit stun for longer than if it isn’t a counter hit so you have to delay your timing a bit more. This will just come from experience and seeing those situations often but you can do stuff like turn on random counter hit in training mode and practice reacting differently when you get a counter hit.

But to be honest IMO if you get a counter hit off a step kick and can get the reactions to do it the better thing to do is - f.mk (counter hit) c.fp - finisher


#20

man, dont bother suggesting him combos like CH f.mk c.hp, high chance that he wont be able to pull that off (yet) anyway.

Like someone said earlier, you can watch videos and think of why the abel player did the things he did.

I still believe he needs to go back to the most basic stuff, and ask himself why this happens etc. Id be glad to help beginners to learn stuff but sometimes I prefer to just point the person in the right direction in hope that the player will be able to figure things out on his own, but no, some people DEMAND to be fed with instant answers(and being a smartass while at it too)… then again, I see most of your problems stem from you not knowing what youre doing at all.

I pointed you to the combo thread for a reason, but all you can see is a bunch of list. No one said do only the combos in the list or anything, why cant you THINK for a moment? Why you never see f.mk cr.mp on the list? All I did was point you in the right direction and encourage you to think for yourself, since some of your questions are really borderin silliness(that might be tolerable if you didnt include that attitude) that i feel like im spoonfeedin a baby with a huge ego or something.

As for all your execution mishaps(ex cod instead of normal cod, s.hp xx cod etc), there is no other advice that can be given that havent been said already. You just need to keep practicing, again and again and again and again. Dont mash, make sure you press the buttons properly etc etc. I mean, how else can someone help you with your trouble to cancel s.hp into hp cod? The most people can say is dont mash, negative edging doesnt guarantee anything, some people use it some dont, in the end you still need to know WHEN to time the input, and no one can tell you exactly the timing.

oh and splurgendii is just enjoying this. LMAO