Seems impossible to find a tier list for Super SF2 so I was just curious. Is Sagat as good as O.Gat in ST? Are the new challengers still at the bottom?
N.Gat is not nearly as good as O.Gat. The new challengers are not all at the bottom; in particular Deejay is mid-high.
I went to the SRK wiki and there were a few tierlists on the ST page: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo
The most recent one on there is japanese and from 2011:
The placement of some of the characters between 2 and 3 on this list is maybe controversial, but overall this is right.
There’s also this recent STrevival matchup chart with lots of info; you can infer a tierlist from a character’s aggregate matchup data http://www.strevival.com/strategy/rankingchart2013/
He asked about SSF2, not Turbo.
doubt gat is great in SSF2 because the game is slow.
Sagat is OK, but since most his cancels are gone and one has much more time to react to his projectiles, he is a fair character.
SSF2 is pretty balanced and does not have as much BS as CPS-1 SF2. It removed CPS-1 chains, which is a good thing, IMO, since those make the top tier even better. But it is slow, and it was enough to doom it in the eyes of the western world, since we didn’t even know why - it was being developed from CE on, not HF on.
There’s this huge complaint/misunderstandind about slow games being simple, but the issue is one has much more time to decide and do stupid stuff, and most do. It takes self-control to stick to the plan and play solidly: most don’t have that. In addition to it, slower games don’t mean one may be slow and do fine: they still reward the most aware players by allowing them to punish or avoid more moves.
No. O.Gat is one of the best versions of Sagat ever created, and he’s not the same as Super Sagat. The difference is primarily the cancellable 2-hit short, which makes O.Gat pretty annoying to deal with even if you manage to get close.
The new challengers were all considered pretty low tier characters at the time, although this is most likely due to the fact that nobody played them. Cammy was terrible, Deejay was a worse version of Guile, Fei Long was extremely easy to zone out, and nobody really unlocked T.Hawk’s potential until the later eras of Super Turbo. Looking back now, T.Hawk is probably a very good character in that game.
It’s competitive life span wasn’t really long enough to establish a definitive tier list, but if you base it off of tourney wins by top players, it’s probably still Ryu, Sim, Guile, Claw, Sagat in jumbled order. Boxer and Honda were kind of up there as well.
Thanks. Yeah, a buddy and I were talking about SSF2 and the hierarchy the other day and I was under the impression that the tier list would shake out similarly to modern day ST. I imagine SSF2 hawk could do the same shenanigans O.Hawk can do in ST but it’d be harder for him and other non-plasma chuckers due to the slower speed/more reaction time.
I was playing WW the other day and I swear WW Sagat has even faster TU recovery. You can’t jump over TS at all without eating a TU.
But where is the tier list for SSF2?
I don’t think there is one. The game wasn’t popular enough to get an actual list made for it, lol.
I’m fairly certain nh2 wrote the comprehensive post in that topic. I can also confirm firsthand that the Gamest diagram—with Hawk next to the top—is transcribed correctly. I remember US players laughing at the Gamest list on agsf2 at the time. It wasn’t until zass publicized the safe loop technique in English over a decade later that we started to take SF2 Hawk seriously.
And now we’ve probably gone full circle in overrating Hawk and even more so with the modern misconception that character tiers are 80% of winning instead of recognizing that 80% results from player skill.
Are you saying I’m good, Ganelon?
I think this is your matchup chart…
DN SA RY CH VE DH GU CA KE DE EH FE BI BA BL ZA Sum
DNGR * 8 8 7 7 4 4 1 1 2 2 3 3 6 6 6 (-3P)
I was asked why my last post didn’t add up so in case it didn’t make sense to anyone else, I was just making an (probably overly elaborate) ST joke.
The line actually represents a motion and not a series of matchups.
The numbers stood for directions in numpad notation read from left to right: 887744112233666 AKA counterclockwise from up to right with an extra right at the end.
If those numbers were actually matchup figures, then the total would’ve been -7. I put “-3P” to hint that something else was amiss. “-3P” referred to “negative” edging “3” "P"unches.
What does that 270 motion plus another right and negative edge 3 punches represent? A sako tick!
In other words, it doesn’t matter who DNGR is up against. The only thing on his matchup flowchart is the sako tick. True to life, no?
That was a good joke, but would have been better if you used arrows instead of numpad. SRK is too cool for that new-fangled weird stuff. I wouldn’t have got the joke if you didn’t explain it lol.
Recently, at a local BBQ. one of the locals at my place said that O. gat was even more OP than in ST. Also more invincibility on his uppercut.
From what I remember, he doesn’t have the 2-hit cancellable st.short in Super. That was a glitch in ST. That alone makes him less scary to deal with, even with a better uppercut.
not gonna lie, that shit went waaaaaay over my head l0l