Applying Pressure (And Hori Fighting Stick V3 Question)


#1

Hey guys, I just got SSF4: AE over Thanksgiving Break and I’m having a lot of fun with it. I play Evil Ryu and I think one of my weaknesses is applying pressure. I know to use the low medium kick and the hop kick to close the gap in spacing to apply more pressure, but my opponent seems to mash SRK to get out of it most of the time. What should I do then, wait to play a spacing/footsie game or keep applying more pressure?

Also I ordered a Hori Fighting Stick V3 for Playstation 3 about two weeks ago and it hasn’t even shipped yet. For some reason most major outlets I’ve tried searching for don’t seem to have it in stock. Do any of you guys know the reason why it’s not in stock anymore?


#2

The hop kick is horribad at closing the distance [I forget if its buffed in 2012, God willing] because its terribly slow and negative on block and I think hit. The goal of pressure is not simply to throw a lot of stuff onto a guys block. Its to systematically reduce their options until they make a terrible mistake. The first step is generally to punish invincible reversals. No matter what you do [unless its also invincible, which is like. A poongko way of doing things.] If they throw a shoryu and you throw a punch you’re going for a spin. So the first stage is baiting those out and punishing them heavily. E. Ryu is rather good at that since max dmg combos top out at like 400 dmg making people really not wanna get baiting. After that tossing in frame traps will halt jab mash and then you can start up frametrap/throw mixups to make people unsure on their defense and try more actively to get out of situations and thus make rash decisions. Read and punish according. Pressure based gameplay is all about staying one step ahead of the opponent. or using a lot of safe stuff which leads into…

That being said, E. Ryu benefits a lot from a more footsie oriented game with his far ranging c.mk/s.mp which lead into heavy FADC combos[and hopefully DK/not to DK mixups into death] and a few off reads can really cause him a lot of being dead problems - so its better to play it safe. At least until he gets that +1 LK axe kick to make people wanna hit some buttons :p.

I dunno about the stick thing, but I imagine Christmas might have something to do with it :smiley:


#3

I could be way off base here but imo its bad to have to goal of “applying pressure.” What does that even mean? Getting your opponent to sit there and block a bunch of your moves? If someones defense amounts to throwing out random uppercuts in the middle of block strings, its time to stop “applying pressure” and just doing moves that hit.


#4

Thanks man. So is the only thing hop kick is good for is to cancel into super to trick opponents? Because I don’t see any other uses for it other than that if it’s negative frames on hit and block.

So I guess Evil Ryu is more of a footsie based character. I was kind of guessing that from before because of his cr. mk and stuff but I’m not too good at FADCing his Hadouken into bigger combo links. Thanks for the information!


#5

I guess I would say the goal of pressure is to get them to ‘open up’ at the wrong times which shoryus would be a part of if they have that sorta reaction to being pressed on. Or throws if their reaction is to tighten up. But you’re right its all in the definition - perhaps a more apt term would be maintaining offensive presence or something. I honestly don’t know how to classify something as pressure because its hard to cause a solid opponent to ‘crack’ under anything. They might guess wrong or something, but its not like a mental spazz out that you’ll see in lower levels [some exceptions I’m sure I’m just saying playing solid is more likely to win than a flat mindfuck]. I just find it hard to define FGs in terms of psychology instead of gameplans [which leads into other problems like ‘WHAT NOW IN THIS COMPLEX 8 WAY MIXUP’ to which my only response is a thin layer of drool out of the corner of my mouth] but HELL I’m no master. Go ask Valle if you want the here and now of using c. mk! I just know its pretty sweet to throw out at midrange. :smiley:


#6

Yeah I see what you mean. I meant that rhetorically. I guess my point was that it seems like people get so caught up in “applying pressure” that they lose track of punishing someone for leaving an opening, which was the whole point in attacking in the first place.


#7

Senbukyaku (hop kick) is only -2 on block, neutral on hit. It’s useful in footsies because it goes over lows.


#8

I still can’t recommend it at all. Its i16[1 frame SLOWER than the fastest overhead] so it loses to pretty much all standing footsies [which most footsie chars rely on, nor will it beat ‘mids’ like claws c.lp] as well as not being fast enough to hit light moves. Its not low invincible on startup so you can’t use it preemptively nor is it low invincible til hit so you might still get tagged. Even if it DID hit you get 0 frames when you coulda counterpoked with his far reaching c.mkxxhadouken FADC/fun or just done the safer also low invincible s.mk. And when it does inenvitably get blocked it puts you at -2. So you get no offense whatsoever. And are right next to the other guy. Awesome.


#9

Fair points regarding it losing to standing and mid pokes though I didn’t say it should be used for that. Yes, E. Ryu also has cr. MK and st. MK to use, although the latter is not low invincible - it just has a good hitbox. I don’t know exactly what you interpreted my post to mean but what I meant to say is that Senbukyaku is a useful footsies tool but certainly not the only one E. Ryu has.

You’re quite wrong about everything else. Senbukyaku is low invincible from the 5th to 15th frame so it can be used preemptively and it is low invincible until hit. Regarding the frame data, you forget to take spacing into account. A move that’s -2 on block can easily be made neutral on block if the move is spaced properly. On hit, it can even give you a bit of frame advantage.


#10

I figure this post is over and done with so I don’t mind derailing it a bit, so…

I guess what I’m trying to say is that as a footsie tool it is by and far his worst one. My point about standing and mid pokes is that its largely ineffective against most of the casts neutral game since it can both be tagged by all standing normals, jumping normals and some crouching normals[particularly c.lp] that usually hover somewhere around half its speed. Also it hits on f16. Not a big deal I grant you, but its there. With his fast walk speed he has many more effective tools [c.mk s.mk s.mp kara focus kara axe kick kara throw…I wish s.hk had a better hitbox] and landing those gives much greater rewards.

I meant to say reflexively, so sorry. You’re right it can be used preemptively to…I’d say middling results. If it does hit you’re in their face at 0 which is fine, but its hard to imagine a situation where you wouldn’t be better served with c.lp in that case. In terms of the spacing…I’d rather not. You do not hit people with 16 frame moves in this game from like 1/3 screen. they could walk away and cause it to whiff at the ranges that would give advantage [and whiff punish its whopping 17f recovery] . I suspect in theory it could happen, but its not something I’d try to setup over trying to tag them with c.mk. Even if it did happen it wouldn’t give you any boons so great as to not just walk in their face, since it would mostly just let you do that.


#11

Another question guys: I was reading the frame data for Evil Ryu from the Shoryuken website and let me get this straight.

If medium axe kick leaves you +4 on hit and cr. medium punch has a 4 frame startup, that means that m. axe kick to cr. mp is a 1 frame link? And also cr. lp leaves +5 on hit and cr. mp is +4 once again. Then that means cr. lp to cr. mp is a 2 frame link right? Just trying to make sure that I’m interpreting this frame data correctly :slight_smile:


#12

Yes, that’s correct for Street Fighter 4 in particular.