Apprentice Combos


#1

I’ve watched all of the Apprentice combo videos for each character and I wanted to get some peoples opinion on something:

Do you think you could compete at a fairly high level banging out combos that do 500-600K as opposed to the TRUE BNB that may do 650-800K?

Examples that come into my mind are

Chun li
X-23
Viper
Magneto

advanced combos. Are they all necessary at high levels or is a decently low execution 500K combo solid enough?

IMO, getting out 500K of dmg and having moderately low execution is better because pressure and missing combos hurts you mentally in tournament.

Another good comparison is in SSFIV:

Do ryus F HP-HP shoryu-FADC-U1 or learn to throw in the CR HP after F HP for the increased dmg or just keep it simple and get your combo in there?

Lets talk.


#2

You definitely can. Most of JWong’s combos don’t even hit apprentice combo level damage, but he still beasts on every single person playing this game because he understands the game so much better. That’s not to say getting more damage out of your combos won’t make things easier, but fundamentals like prediction and mixup are infinitely more important than being able to do combos. After all, what good is a combo if you can’t land the first hit?

Zero is also a good example for that list of characters, and Marn’s Zero is another good example for my case. His combos go a little further than the apprentice combos, but they still aren’t as good as they could be; he’s just a great player so he’s successful despite doing easier combos.

With all that said though, you should be able to hit close to 600k with almost any character relatively easy without the need for advanced execution (there are a few exceptions like X-23, Morrigan, and Zero among others).


#3

The main thing to playing competitively is doing the combo that best suits your ability. If you are a technical genius and can h-rom 99% of the time for absolute maximum damage, then you should be doing it! If you aren’t as technical or you are a beginner when it comes to execution, then do the simple combo. Usually (not always) the damage difference between the craziest/hardest combos and the easy-mode variants is small enough to not matter.

A 500 dmg combo that you never drop does more damage than a 700 dmg combo that you drop 50% of the time halfway through. Usually, the ender is the most important part. You want to get them in a grounded state or you want to DHC. Make sure you can get to the end, then work on extending them =D.


#4

Yeah what trag said. He knows what’s up.

Like me personally, I can do Wesker’s more advanced combos fairly easily. But for some reason in the heat of the fight, I don’t try for them. I naturally do the easier combo which isn’t so bad after. The advanced would be

after a teleport or some mix-up air S, L, M, H, hard knockdown move, Low Samurai Edge, Cr. M, H, Wallbounce, S, air series into OTG > assist. Some shit like that. But when I’m playing I usually do a standard magic series into wallbounce, and OTG with samurai edge into either relaunch or Maximum Wesker.

The former does probably like 100-150k more damage but the latter is so autopilot that in tournament, unless you have Justin’s execution you’d probably wanna do something similar. But practicing against players online will let you know what combos you’re better/more comfortable with doing.


#5

But if JWong were to play an evil version of himself who did the longer combos, evil Wong would win.

It’ll make the difference between two players who are otherwise very close in skill level and playing very similar teams. When the difference is greater, other factors can become more important…


#6

Imo at least, the main difference between the longer more complex combo’s and the much easier combos is meter. Im currently only doing apprentice level combos online, but sometimes the lack of meter definitely hurts me. Once i get my execution down on better combos i will go to them. but till its in muscle memory the simpler combos are definitely fine.


#7

That’s definitely an issue. You definitely want to find combos that build more meter than they spend where possible. I’ve actually made some alterations to Iron Man’s advanced BnB combos that I find too hard so that they are easier and still build more than 1 meter before the Proton Cannon. Some characters can make up for meter deficits though like Zero and Taskmaster who build 2+ full meters on a BnB combo.


#8

God if only MvC3 combos were this simple. I’d take 1 frame links any day over these huge ass chains and cancels.

Think Sleazoid hit the spot there. The one who makes the most off an opportunity (through more damage and meter) has the upper hand, but in a fighting game creating those opportunities (or avoiding them) plays a bigger role. Either way, I’m never going to be lazy and stick with the easy solution, the harder combos are definetly possible if you put effort into it. Plus they look cooler.


#9

Position is way more important to me than damage. I’ll go for the combo that gives better position for oki over damage unless it’ll kill.

I find that there way more elements in this game that are more important than damage and combos like team synergy, screen control, movement, meter management, knowledge, and prediction. Combos and doing damage are probably the easiest things to learn in a fighting game, everything else you can’t really learn in training mode or look up and figure it out, you have to experience and is always improving.


#10

Mind pming them to me? lol. I’m trying to put some time into iron man. I get so pumped when i hear him yell “PROTON CANNON!” its so sick. Only reason why i like playing him actually. lol.

Yes, and TM does build insane meter. He’s one of the five characters i use. (I still dont have a set team yet) lol. I use like everyone


#11

one thing i’d like to talk about is the overall strategy of the game… whether or not ot use apprentice combos aor long metered ones or long non metered ones, uses of assists and team order to affect team viability… like the use of exchange on high meter dependent teams and saving a good lvl3 x factor character as an anchor or just a good assist… or both. also some characters are really good when on lvl 3 xfc but become straight ludicrous with meter and xfc… like ammy (powerup with xfc, meter to slow the opponent making her one of the fastest characters in the game… very powerful when combined) and the same thing for wolverine… ridiculously strong with lvl3 xfc and 5 stocks of berserker charge… thats a character almost impossible to keep out.

there are alot of mainline strategies that are still being discovered… talking about them would be a good thing…

like using exchange to pump up a meter dependent lvl3 xfc character to the brink… yet still getting really good damage since exchange is an artificial damage increaser for the price of a guess.

etc etc

-dime


#12

Some cases I could compete without knowing or even doing a combo, just have to shut down the other person. Of course it would help though, that’s a duh yes.


#13

I personally think that Arthur with X Factor lvl 3 and super armor is ridiculous. He hits you with like 4 projectiles and like half of the cast is dead…or near dead. Usually I just spam crossbow with him and it works awesome because how well it hoams in on you and how much more dmg it does. Goddess Bracelet also does insane chip dmg.

One other thing I wanted to talk about here was how and when to use X Factor to maximize its use.

I think you should personally never use it until it is your last character when either: Time limit is close to 20 seconds, you have to kill three characters fast if you’re getting raped, your opponent has already used it before you.

In a sense, X Factor is meant to stage comebacks…thats why it was implemented. You can use it to cancel into another hyper or to kill off another character or to avoid chip dmg to die but chip dmg at the end of the round when players are being defensive is 10x better. Not to mention, it will last 5-10 seconds longer as well. Basically, you’re killing your defense and offense by not using it until you have one character left. I like to manage my team so that my last person standing is my favorite for X Factor. Examples of good x fact finals: Sentinel, Arthur, Akuma, Amaterasu, Wolverine, Wesker.

So like lets say i’m beating someone and winning pretty nicely or semi ahead. I got Deadpool in a combo with Dante and I don’t have the meter to DHC so I decide to x factor and get a little bit more dmg from my combo. I kill him and now he is left one character, Iron Man (or whoever) with X Fac and I have Dante and Wolverine (or whoever. lol) and I have no X Factor and he has full x factor and 2 bars of meter. He lands one bnb on me gets a full bar and now he just chips me to death or lands one more combo and wins. Imagine if I had X factor for my last guy though. I could just sit and block all day…I have a lead, whats he gonna do w no assists and no way to chip me and stop health from coming back?


#14

In general, you should be using it to create momentum for yourself one way or the other. If that means coming back from the brink by preventing yourself from being chipped out, great. If that means taking control of the matchup very early by eliminating a key character (Doom / Sentinel come to mind), that’s great also.

The only situation I think that you shouldn’t be doing it is from a neutral state on your last character*. When you use it from neutral, you’re giving up its ability to extend combos. You shouldn’t need X-Factor to get the first hit in a combo, so play until you get a hit in and use it to extend. Play smart, even at the endgame!

*Dark Phoenix might benefit from neutral use, as it prevents her life decay. Still, though ;p