Approaching Guile


#1

It’s the same old story:

The only options I can see are:
[LIST]
[]Jump = Get Normaled/Air thrown/Flashkicked
[
]FADC = Get Normaled after dashing through the Sonic Boom.
[]Block n’ Walk = Chip damage adds up quick
[
]Evade all day = :zzz:
[*]Cancel with projectiles all day = :zzz:
[/LIST]Are there any non-character specific tips? Seems like no matter who I am I have to work extra damn hard just to get near Guile and even then I’m usually already at a health disadvantage.

:lame:

P.S. I know he is built to play that way and that I need to practice against him, I’m just having trouble seeing possible options, especially when low on health.


#2

If you don’t like playing lame i don’t think guile is the right character for you


#3

Perhaps I wasn’t clear, this is about playing against Guile and trying to close in on him. Specifically from mid to far range. :smile:


#4

You just have to walk forward blocking and take the chip. When you get in close you have to start playing footsies and try to get him to throw a bad sonic boom so you can jump it or use one of your character specific specials/supers/ultras that goes through fireballs. Some characters even have good fast pokes you can use when you get close which will stuff sonic booms during their start up.

Another trick if you keep FADCing right into a s.fierce or something is to FADC then neutral jump and come down and hit his whiffed normal.

Also, throws beat all normals (you can grab long range pokes depding on this hit boxes) so if you get close and he keeps hitting you with pokes you can try grabbing them.

Reading Guiles footsies is really important. If he stands up he can’t flash kick. If he stands up and isn’t moving backwards (or he moves forward) he can’t sonic boom. Use these moments to dash and reclaim a little space.

It’s not meant to be easy, you have to work to get in on him. That’s the point of his design.

Make sure you read your character specific forums match up thread to find out how to deal with him more specifically. You might not have to get in on him at all.


#5

You gotta remember there is also a thing called “neutral jump.” You don’t have to jump forward or back. Neutral jump over his booms and walk forward to approach him.


#6

Neutral jump, dash in FA dash in, walk up throw.


#7

Thanks for the advice.

I’ve been trying neutral jump which works far away, but mid range he tends to sonic boom, then walk forward and AA punish my neutral jump, usually beating out any attack I’m trying to come down with due to Guile’s ridiculous normals. I also have a hard time punishing those unsafe sonic booms unless I almost psychiclly predict one and jump super early. Mid-sweep range I either can’t react fast enough and get hit on the way up or he recovers too damn fast and just cr.FPs me out of the air even on an attempted cross-up with good timing on his part.

“Another trick if you keep FADCing right into a s.fierce or something is to FADC then neutral jump and come down and hit his whiffed normal.”

Is there time to do this? It seems like when FADCing I’m getting hit after the absorb and during the dash forward, I can’t see how there’s enough time to also add in 4 frames to leave the ground plus however long to get high enough to avoid something like a st.FP as well.

I wish we could record local vs. play so I could study myself a bit better. :smile: I also hate being so inconsistent about it. Sometimes I’ll do really awesome against this playstyle and bait everything perfectly and sometimes I feel like I can’t do anything. Trying to reduce the latter.

Couple other things that have been succesful… using Guy’s flip and elbow delay to bait the AA with different timings then punish. Same thing with Akuma and Gouken’s demon flips.


#8

I’m a relatively new user on these forums and I’ve already seen a couple of these threads before. Strange that it seems like mostly guile gets these threads or maybe it’s just that they stand out to me more.

Much of this is character dependent so it would help if you gave us some chars you use for specificity. But here’s some quick tips

-imo the ideal strategy to beat guile is make sure you get the life lead early and then make him come to you. I wont get in too much detail there but that’s the overarching strategy you want to have against guile (most any character, for that matter)

-Make the most out of every chance getting in. Successfully jumping in on Guile - even if he blocks it- is valuable. Finding a safe way to get around fireballs and in for mixups is very important.

-Pay attention to his patterns. Against rushdown characters, you have to learn how they pressure you up close with their blockstrings, gimmicks, etc. Against guile, you have to learn how he keeps you out.
–Does he sit in one spot without moving and spam booms without mixing anything up, being extremely predictable? Don’t be afraid to use risky anti-fireball stuff if you KNOW he’s gonna boom (keep in mind these usually must be predicted in advance and not reacted with).
–Does he throw booms and continually back up far away? Get him to the corner, then he has no option but to advance or be vulnerable, and that’s when you can get in.
–Does he throw 1 boom and follow it up every time with a sweep, hk, or backfist? Don’t forget it’s not scrubbish to reversal when you know they’re gonna throw out that sloooow roundhouse at you after you block the boom. And once they’re without a back charge, it takes a second to get their charge back. This can allow you to advance with normals and footsie it up. He’s gonna wanna get another boom out there as quick as possible, so if he’s not mixing it up you can predict generally when he’ll throw another boom and possibly jump in safely.

-Learn his weaknesses. This takes time. You need to know what guile CAN do in certain situations, and then see what he DOES do. In my experience with guile mirror matches and non-mirrors, most low to mid level guiles tend to be very one dimentional and uncreative. They can also be very impatient and just as likely as any flowchart ken to throw out random flash kicks when they have charge to make you gtfo. Baiting flash kicks and reversaling predictable pokes will get you far against many guiles.

In short: get in, knock down, cross up all day for free (unless he has super) and make him scared to throw out that flash kick.

And never, NEVER, let him put on those shades. Because then you’ve truly lost.


#9

Thanks for the awesome breakdown Casey.

My problem (at least from what I can tell) seems to stem from the fact that he will change up and mix between those tactics. (as a good Guile should)

I didn’t ask for character specific advice only because frankly, I don’t feel like I have a “main” at this point. Noone really clicks with me in a strong way and I’ve been playing since vanilla SF4 came out.

For this match specifically I tend to do better with Cody (since he has so many ways through those predictable sonic booms) and Vega since he can generally reach far outside the “normal” poke range of the footsie dance we’re used to playing and catch those normal startup frames :slight_smile:

I think I need to make better use of the “get the life lead and make him come to me” tactic. Even if i do get him in the corner, it almost feels like an advantage for him. I still get that “almost-impenetrable wall of booms and normals” feeling (probably just my mindset at this point) which force me to think: “Well if I jump, I at least have a decent chance for damage, if I keep taking chip then I’ll have to make it up” This usually leads to an inevitable jump-in after trying to bait a sonic boom which leads to him just barely recovering fast enough to get that AA normal out and then I’m knocked down or pushed back and back where I started.

Things I will work on:

[LIST]
[]Better/Safer cross-up options
[
]Not freaking out about 3-4 chip damage hits when trying to get in
[]Forcing myself to back off with the life lead
[
]Jumping less in general unless close-in
[]Using reversals to catch those normals that are sticking out
[
]Overall emotional/mindset control/awareness (as in don’t immediately start the match with the thought "Oh crap, Guile again…I have a mountain ahead of me…) :shy:
[/LIST]
Thanks

Edit: P.S. He absolutely loves that Flashkick->FADC->Shades move…


#10

You’re going to have to pick a main

You’re not going to beat a really good ______ when you don’t even have a character you’re comfortable with

There are 34 to choose from, just fucking pick one.


#11

it would also help to watch videos of your chars vs guile (top players of course) and try some of the stuff they do to get in :smiley:


#12

Just send some crossup, guile has a glitch where they are unblockable.


#13

get gud


#14

I really despise playing against him, thanks for the tips in this thread


#15

I wouldn’t recommend forcing yourself off of guile if you have the life lead unless the situation has reset itself. Meaning if you’re on guile, crossing him up, mixing him up with throws and knockdowns, you want to keep that going until you get pushed back with a block string or he pokes you away. I guess just once you get the disadvantage or are even (provided you have a good 30-50% lead) you can stop trying to get in and play footsies (now obviously don’t let him do whatever he wants, he can still set soem stuff up with offensive boom followups). With vega and cody i know they don’t have amazing wakeup games so at the same time a guile with good offense can do plenty damage to you if he manages to knock you down.
Anyway, as cody you can annoy his boom pressure with stones, use properly spaced ex rk or psychic ex bingos to get in close (risky, but sometimes are hard to punish) and then pwn up close. Cody has teh tools to beat guile down up close, at that point it’s just a matter of lrn2play i guess.


#16

This thread is actually very helpful for me too. Next to Ryu and Ken, Guile is a pain for me too. It seems his wakeup options aren’t the best So i tend to pick up wins when i crossup, but im noob so im probably wrong about his options. Ive been trying to learn what beats out his flashkick clean (which seems to be a lot). Also does anyone know the priority of his air grab? If he were to air grab at the exact moment as say elf or cammy who would win?


#17

If you want to go for beating FKs clean, try jump ins that are very vertical, such as Ryu’s jumping HP. His air throw doesn’t have more priority than others, it just has the most reach, so he can grab elf or cammy before they can.


#18

As a Makoto, I approach Guile almost exactly as I approach Dhalsim. Move in as wisely as possible, and play the strangest mixup I can conjure up when close. Of course, I don’t always play with the kind of mind necessary to win these matchups.

I really hate (not really, lol) the loss I took yesterday against a Guile. The match was soooooooo close, and I made 3 critical errors that made all the difference in the world. Let me get what’s probably the worst of it out of the way. 2 critical errors were in how BOTH rounds ended with me having the lead, then commiting suicide by jumping in (almost full screen away) at him as he anti aired with SH. Now, the bad thing about the final round was that while it ended that way, prior to it ending that way I had the clean opportunity to win the round. What happened? I failed to punish a blocked flash kick, something I typically do with my eyes closed. It was an input error. I did standing HP instead of forward HP. Hell, I could have done Hayate or dash Karakusa or forward mk to hk… just blew that. Then moments later, he dd the exact same thing he’d done to me (or what I’d done to myself) in the first round. Almost full screen away, charged U2… I JUMPED without thought, and ate the U2 for the loss. That kind of **** is unacceptable, my friends.

Shout out to that Guile for the good match.


#19

excellent advice Casey 25, thats what I do to get in against him when I play Chun. then once I get mid-range I EX Hazan Shuu him after a sonic boom. That knocks him down then I commence to crossing his ass up and bye-bye turtle Guile. (Friggin hate turtle Guiles)