Arcade Edition Match Up: Sagat

guy

#1

What do we know about Sagat?

Sagat primarily focuses on his Tiger Shot zoning to create an obstacle course.
His objective is to force you to jump where he will meet you with one of his many
anti airs. Sagat has decent mid range pokes that will keep you out of his face so
that he may commence with his Tiger Shot game. You can never figure out Sagat if
you are getting pummeled repeatedly by Tiger Shots. Fortunately, Guy has many tools to
deal with Sagat’s specific fireball zoning, which is when the real fight starts.

What can I learn about Sagat?
All of Sagat’s frame data can be found on the SRK Wiki.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Sagat

Here are Capcom’s final documented changes for Sagat in AE 2012:

For undocumented changes and discussion, please check out this thread in the Sagat forums:

What should I be doing?

Staying in between the close and mid ranges, threatening Sagat’s territory. st.MP,
cr.MP, Target Combo > Run-Stop, st.MK, etc. Pretty much do whatever is necessary to
bait an uppercut. At close range, Sagat doesn’t really have any spammable normals.
His cr.LP which is 3 frames cannot be chained, so it is rarely used defensively. Sagat
should never jump at you, but if he does, st.HK or cr.MP will do.

[LEFT]Personal Note: I notice that Sagat players try their best to be more aggressive at[/LEFT]
[LEFT]closer than comfort ranges to cover up Sagat’s defensive weaknessess and immobility.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]This has been the case for some of the more notable Sagat’s that I’ve played.[/LEFT]
[LEFT](Sanford, Alioune, Pure Evil, JiJi, RF).[/LEFT]

What should I be aware of?

-st.LK

It is special cancelable again. It is used to create space and nothing more. Just be
patient and block.

-fw.LK

A standing attack that hits low. It is pretty safe on block. This is a sign that Sagat
is getting fed up at being harrassed.

-st.MK

This is one of Sagat’s most used pokes because it helps create more space at mid range,
however it is fairly slow on start up. st.MP is great for whiff punishing here.

-Tiger Knee

Expect this move a lot at mid range or in pressure strings after two cr.LK. cr.MK
makes Tiger Knee whiff and hits on the second hit.

Sagat Specific

Throw Setups
-Back throw, whiff cr.MK, j.HP(also a safe jump), bj.MP (fuzzy overhead)
-Back throw, quick step forward, whiff st.HK, j.HK (crosses up)

Notes

[LEFT]-The neutral jump safe jump does not work on Sagat due to his wake up animation.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]You can time it but that makes it more riskier. (1 frame slower)[/LEFT]

-Tiger Uppercut > FADC leaves him at -2, so Ultra 2 is recommended for this match up.

Summary

Avoid taking unnecessary damage from fireballs. Seriously, there are too many ways
to deal with projectiles, so you don’t need to jump in. This is a basic bait and
punish match up. Get in, make him uppercut and destroy him. That’s all there is to it.

You all are more than welcome to add or update information about this match up. If anything
I mentioned is incorrect, feel free to let me know.


#2

EX hozanto actually goes under his high tiger shot, if timed correctly,which is a great thing to be aware of.


#3

I’ve posted a video on that somewhere!


#4

Believe its in the AE changes thread, I remember someone saying they thought EX had projectile invincibility or that Guy would low enough to avoid it.


#5

Here it is:

[media=youtube]Rzu88wQyTxE[/media]


#6

what can I use to punish tiger knee’s? I see my self getting hit with random tiger knees after block strings the lk precisely and I never know what to do against it.


#7

Stand block them and Sagat will be at a higher frame disadvantage. I’m not sure if his light knee is punishable on stand block if spaced correctly.
This matchup sucks cos Sagat gets free fadc into ultra all the time against Guy.


#8

[LEFT]Kreymore, if you could copy the information between the lines and paste it into the first post, that’d be great. :tup:[/LEFT]


Here are Capcom’s final documented changes for Sagat in AE 2012:

For undocumented changes and discussion, please check out this thread in the Sagat forums:


(No need to copy this portion. Just avoiding double posting.)

To be perfectly honest, ever since I’ve begun playing Guy, I’ve always had a difficult time in the match up against Sagat. He’s one of the few non-charge characters that make me very uncomfortable. As a result, I’ve spent some time in training mode to figure things out, such as this safe jump setup:

[media=youtube]TO3m7_DNdIk[/media]

[media=youtube]tX-v5MV0Hf0[/media] (edited: 01.11.2012)

However, I never run into Sagat players online, so I lack the actual match up experience. I played in a tournament at Next Level on Saturday (Savage Saturdays), and I lost to TPH Lionheart after going up 1-0. I did drop a lot of combos and missed out on a lot of opportunities, but that doesn’t change the fact that I felt lost during the match. I overheard Sanford saying that I really didn’t know the match up, and it was a bit of reality check for me to not be complacent with my play. So, I’d like to ask for some discussion on a topic that may be very obvious, and I’m sure beginning Guy (and Street Fighter) players may be afraid to ask:
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
How do you deal with projectiles, especially in the Sagat match up? How do you make your way past the Tiger Shots into the area where Sagat players should feel pressured and uncomfortable?

Personally, I’ve always been somewhat proud of my “psychic” jump-ins even before I started playing Guy. When I don’t have meter, I abuse Elbow Drop in the range where Kara Tiger Uppercut won’t hit Guy, since I’m not a fan of using Bushin Flip to get inside (even though I will use it often enough). During this time, I try to pick up the Sagat player’s pattern of hurling Tiger Shots, make an educated guess when he/she will throw the next fireball, and jump in. I know this process is very risky in theory and in practice, and I’m sure everyone thinks it’s unnecessary in this match up. However, it works for me (well, up until Saturday). When I do have meter, I’m always thinking about using EX Run > Slide to blow through the low Tiger Shots.

Also, the larger hitbox for j.HK is very noticeable. I’ve stuffed a lot of Tiger Uppercuts that I don’t recall beating in Super and AE.


#9

I understand that Tiger Shots can indeed be frustrating in some situations, as Guy does have a bit of a dead zone versus Sagat. If Sagat players are good at manipulating their fireball game, it can be tough to tell when the next shot is coming. I’ve played TPH Lionheart a few sets in the past. The last set we played I beat him 10-6, but I noticed he’s been getting a lot better at that match up and as a player in general. The more patient Guy players seem to get abused by these tactics a lot. I consider myself to be a patient player, but for the most part I am able to switch it up depending on the opponents play style.

Early in the round I tend to just focus the low shots and crouch the high shots. Sagat players like this because it allows them to change the speed of their shots while testing your reaction ability, and lets them get the life lead little by little. I feel that this is Sagat’s main objective. They will pummel you with Tiger Shots if it is what it takes to win. I know it can be tough to deal with this at times. Just focus some shots and try your best to get one meter so you can just bulldog your way in his face.

I compare Sanford’s play style with Guy to RB and Papatiwawa, although they both considerably know a more about the character. He told me that he beat Lionheart 7-1 after the tourney. When I watched RB vs Mago, RB is all over the place and I understand that it can be tough to read Guy’s movements, especially as Sagat since he has terrible mobility.

Also, I heard about you destroying Arturo’s Dhalsim. I’m sure you would have beaten him had that incident did not occur.


#10

Thanks for the tips and thoughts. I’ll keep in mind that I should be aware of all of my mobility options and attempt to not limit myself to only a few of those options. Lionheart just kept throwing Low Tiger Shots, and I kept getting hit by them whenever I decided to actually press a button when I was semi-close to him. It was pretty discouraging, so I wound up blocking more and more as the match progressed. I’ve heard people say that I block too much sometimes, and I definitely agree.

Haha, Art actually played Rose for our first match and switched to Dhalsim before Chris mentioned that the brackets were messed up. Rhys has that match recorded, so I’ll let you all know when I have that.


#11

This is a series of fights I had against this level A sagat on endless.
I don’t want to sound cocky or anything but I have never had that much trouble against Sagat. And now reding the discussion between you two, I realized that maybe this is because of my reckless style of play (I have watched Kreymore matches and str[e]ak matches, and I do think you Guys play much more patiently than me). I think once you are in, Sagat has nothing to do but to uppercut, and to bait that is all you want. coming to think about it, when you manage to be “all over the place” I think this matchup is even if not in guy’s favor.
Anyways, It’s no Arubi vs Mago but here it goes:

[media=youtube]KkM9_P3XL-E[/media]


#12

Fuzzy Guard: Jump in Hp, then Jump Away Mp. As far as I know Sagat cannot mash through this string if you time it correctly.


#13

Some more observations against Sagat: If you crouch block against Ex Tiger Uppercut, you can punish it by Neutral Jumping with Hp to start your combo and maximise your combo. 2. Bushin Flip, then quickly Forward Dash into a Low Bushin Flip, is an uncrouchable (very tight). 3. Low Hozanto into Ultra 1, can be done with out meter. 4. Run Slide, FADC into back dash, then Forward Jump with Hp, is a Safe Jump. You can Fuzzy Guard Sagat if he blocks the jump-in Hp. 5. Run Slide into Neutral Jump into Back Dash, is Safe from All Tiger Uppercuts (good for baiting), (also works against Cammy).


#14

Corner Throw Set-Ups: 1. Safe Jump; Forward Throw, Back Dash, Forward Dash, Neutral Jump with an attack. 2. Beats Normal Tiger Uppercuts; Forward Throw; then quickly Back Dash, Back Dash, Forward Jump with Mk.


#15

Ex Tatsu Safe Jump: If you achieve the Third Hit from Ex Tatsu you can Forward Jump or Neutral Jump with an Attack while holding Block to be safe against Sagat’s wake up SRK. Some examples: 1. Jump in Hk, stHk, Target Combo into Ex Tatsu, Forward Jump. 2. Jump in Hk, crHp, stMp into Ex Tatsu, Forward Jump. 3. Walk up crLk, crLp, Target Combo into Ex Tatsu, Forward Jump. 4. Cross up Mk, Target Combo into Ex Tatsu, Forward Jump. 5. Corner; Target Combo into Low Hozanto, Ex Tatsu, Neutral Jump. 6. Block Sagat’s Normal SRK and punish with Target Combo into Ex Tatsu, Forward Jump. To punish Sagat’s Ex SRK do stHk, Target Combo into Ex Tatsu, Forward Jump. Note: Sagat’s wake up and SRK creates a little push back so most of these want work in those situations except 6. Also if Sagat doesn’t tech, if you immediately Neutral Jump with an Attack you should still be safe. You can also do an uncrouchable after Ex Tatsu using Ex Bushin Flip.


#16

Corner Carry: Back Throw then Command Run.


#17

Bushin Chain can be connected after cr HP. Also works on Abel.