Arcade Edition Match Up: Seth

guy

#1

So, what do we know about Seth?

Well, Seth is a “Jack of all trades; master of none” character. Possessing
most of the original SF cast’s move list. He can do it all. Plasma, Lightning Legs,
Teleport, Wall Jump, Spinning Pile Driver, and of course, Shoryuken. As well
as his own signature moves. In v.2012, Seth has been altered to cater to
a more aggressive style of play, granting him an additional 50 HP and bigger
hit boxes on some of his close normals. Having tools to deal with the whole
cast, Seth can at times, be a unstoppable force of sorts. His weakness
in concern with Guy, involve gaining consistent opportunities for damage,
while not putting himself in a position to lose a ton of life himself.

What can I learn about Seth?

All of Seth’s frame data can be found on the SRK Wiki.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Seth

For undocumented changes and discussion, please check out this thread in the Seth forums:

What should I be doing?

Seth is good at dictating the pace of the match, and riding out the momentum
of that pace until the end of the round. Guy is just as equally mobile as Seth is,
so try your best to never let Seth pinpoint your movements. Seth cannot zone
Guy out as his fireball is almost useless in this match up. Because of Seth’s
low HP, all attack trades are in your favor. This means that Seth must be more
cautious at finding his openings, which in turn, grants Guy more opportunities of
offense. Be aware of Seth’s meter, as Guy knocking Seth down is still a true
guess on Guy’s part upon Okizeme. Force Seth to make a decision, just as he
would have you upon his knock down opportunities.

What should I be aware of?

-Tandem Engine

This move has generous start up, so it is fairly easy to avoid if you are
anticipating it. Puts you in a repeated guessing scenario. Jump Forward
and Punish, or jump back and escape. Don’t get sucked in.

-Far HP

It doesn’t lead into anything, but it is still free damage. Max range it
is not punishable. Anywhere else it is punishable with EX Hozanto.

-Sonic Boom

It’s slow. You can focus it. You can jump over it. You can cr.HK under it.
You can block it. There is no reason to get hit by this move.

-Dive Kick

This is mainly used in Seth’s Knock down mix ups, or a wall jump
to change his jump arc. If it is used mid range, simply avoid it.

-Wall Jump

This is his escape option as well as his gap closer. Try to read
where he is going to land and position yourself accordingly.

Ultra Choice

Ultra 1 is great here for more damage and a potential round closer.
However, you are rarely in a position where you can land grounded
hits that lead into Ultra 1. I believe Ultra 2 should be the standard choice
in this match up for several reasons. It will always do max damage.
It shouldn’t be used post stun unless it guarantees the kill. And it beats
a couple of Seth’s standard mix ups, such as SRK > FADC and his Sonic
Boom into Teleport setup after an Ultra 1.

Summary

It’s easier for Seth to land a knock down on you. If your intent is to be
aggressive, be aware of Seth’s meter. If you are playing passive, don’t
be a sitting duck. Make it hard for Seth to know what your plan of attack
is. Punish as best as the situation permits. Make Seth second guess his
next move. Keep Ultra 2 stocked to nullify guessing situations.

[LEFT]You all are more than welcome to add or update information about this match up. If anything[/LEFT]
[LEFT]I mentioned is incorrect, feel free to let me know.[/LEFT]


#2

Thank you so much for this Kreymore I struggle against Seth and Adon the most so this is very helpful I hope other Guy players contribute to this thread as well the more information the better.


#3

I find most of the time, whoever wins round 1 will tend to win in this matchup. This is purely for meter related reasons. If Seth rushes in and bodies you in round 1, he will likely do this using purely mixups after knockdown. This will give him at least a couple of bars going into round 2. What with his options after a FADC, this is bad news and will likely end in a free mixup opportunity against you, which could lead to another knockdown, another mixup, etc. Things can go from bad to worse really quickly against Seth. I advise getting in that ass and staying on him right from the start of round 1 where he doesn’t have any meter. The golden opportunity you’re looking for is a whiffed DP. Try a combination of things in your block strings like target combo into run-stop then cr. block, cr. jab x 3 then cr. block, target combo into MP or HP bushin flip over his head. Once you get a whiffed or blocked DP (remember he won’t have meter to FADC yet), capitalise with a max damage combo. If he decides to hang back and throw sonic booms, run-slide under them for a free hard knockdown mixup situation. Due to his rather large size, run-overhead will connect both hits against focus attack charges and if he backdashes just before, you will catch him out of that with the 2nd hit. So run-overhead can be a good tool, but one that should certainly not be abused too much.

Other things I think are worth noting are:

  • LK bushin kicks will beat low normals, throw and SPD. If you have a particularly SPD happy Seth, try mashing it during his block strings. The rather slow startup of this move actually helps you in this situation.

  • His dive kick is the main way of getting in. Using cr. MP, cr. MK or EX hozanto do all work, but only SOMETIMES. The spacing and angle of Seth’s approach is very important here. I find a good option can be to cr. HK to slide under him as he is activating the dive. This will cross you under him ready to punish with a cr. LK into whatever combo you choose.

  • I’ll finish updating this later, at work and my break is about to end!


#4

His fw jumping MP kills Guy’s elbow and is a very killer anti air.I don’t think Seth even needs a DP to AA Guy. He’s better off not using SRK - except offensively where Guy can’t back dash and there is literally no escape without meter, or even with it sometimes - if he chooses to use EX DP.

In my opinion, against a solid Seth - Guy has little to nothing. He has to rely on the player making mistakes i.e not anti-airing or DPing out of pressure or perhaps jumping in while he’s doing the tanden.

As for mashing light tatsu to escape lows and throws - viable option but where does the risk/reward factor leave you? Reward: Guy will get 80 dmg or so and escape the pressure. Risk: if blocked Guy will most likely be led to stun and get KO’d from there.

I guess if you’re not a character who can DP into Ultra, Seth doesn’t have too much to worry about. Even if you DO (somehow) anti air him, it’ll be with a normal for petty damage or a costly ex tatsu. He’ll jump all day and Guy’s instant air grab is not always consistent, especially against dive kick where he’ll be hit out of his grab, ex or not. Probably because his throwable box is too high up and the my guess is either the active frames of the throw deplete, or the invisibility of the ex invisibility depletes, so Guy gets hit by the dive kick instead.

Edit: I also don’t understand why the OP says that both characters are on par in terms of mobility. Seth’s wall jump is much faster and he can also teleport. Guy’s normal and wall jump are both slow and easily reactable. And they’re definitely not equal in terms of walk speed, but seth doesn’t walk he jumps or brings you to him.

Edit 2: Oh yeah, don’t jump once he gets Ultra 1 - not even elbow from full screen.


#5

Good write up , I can never seem to consistently AA Seth. I always get hit some way or the other while trying. Need to use a specific AA for each situation and using the wrong one gets you punished HARD. Need some help on this one , should i just consider blocking then?Seems so annoying to let him in for free.


#6

It’s funny you should say that Guy has little to nothing against a solid Seth. Problem X (to name a player we have both played in tournament and are aware of the skill level of) really hates this matchup and says it’s 7-3 to Guy. This is why he now counterpicks Guy with Bison. I find it interesting how in certain matchups, both parties feel like the other character has the upper hand. I personally would put this at 5-5 or possibly 6-4 to Seth.

With regards to the mashing light tatsu, obviously this is a situational thing. Most Seth players will have a couple of setups for going for SPD and if you get a feel for when they’re about to go for it, then mash. While Seth’s SPD doesn’t do much in the way of damage, it’s a great positioning tool for him to carry on his shenanigans after you wake up.

I agree about the ultra 1. You literally can’t jump, flip, run or do anything! I remember hearing on some stream commentary before that the hitbox on Seth’s ultra 1 counts as a projectile, so I assumed you could MK tatsu or EX run slide through it. But this isn’t the case unfortunately, it seems to count as a normal hit. So don’t try those options, I’ve already tried and they don’t work. The best bait I’ve found if he’s just sitting back at full screen with ultra 1 ready to go is a quick dash forward into HP bushin flip over his head. If he does something stupid like walk back, dash back, jump, etc. then flip grab him. If he activates you will avoid it and land behind him for free punish. Obviously don’t cancel into elbow drop, even right above his head, because he can react ultra to that. You just want him to think that’s what you’re gonna do.

If I’m playing a ranked match against a random Seth player I don’t know the play style of, I always go for ultra 2. Lots of Seth’s mixups on knockdown can involve safe jump setups. Even if he knows your ultra 2 will grab him if he’s foolish enough to go for these setups, it prevents him from daring to try. This lessens his options, which is always a good thing! And as Kreymore said, Seth is at -1 after a DP > FADC forward dash on block, so it’s always good for that too!

If I know the player uses tandem engine a lot, e.g. after an antiair or air-to-air reset, when you’re waking up, etc. then ultra 1 can be very useful. His engine starts up quite slowly and he strikes a distinctive pose when he’s going for it. So if you buffer the 2 x QCF motion when landing from a reset or whatever the situation is, you can ultra him on reaction. Ultra 1 is also useful if the Seth player uses ultra 2. It’s commonly used as a chip to death tool thanks to its vacuum properties. If he’s in range for his ultra 2 to vacuum you to death as you wake up, he’s also in range for you to mash out ultra 1 for the win!

EDIT: On the subject of instant EX air throw not catching Seth’s dive kick, there are actually 3 different variations of the move you can do. Traditional ‘tiger knee’ motion ends with a forward jump, but you can also end the QCF motion with up or up-back to jump in those directions. This obviously changes the location of the hitbox of the EX throw when it comes out. It’s all about judging the spacing and which is the right motion to go for. I play on pad and find the motion a bit fiddly, but for stick players I would imagine it can be pulled off with relative ease.


#7

In this match up, Seth’s only enemy is the player playing him, at least when fighting Guy and characters of similar tier. I’ve already mentioned in my post why this is and this match-up is definitely not 7-3 for Guy.

I’m not saying Guy is a weak character in this game overall - but in comparison to Seth, he has little to nothing if Seth knows how to exploit Guy.


#8

Punishes against SRK: If you immediately punish a whiffed or blocked SRK from Seth, it will create a little push back making certain staple combos whiff. So I created a list of some practical combos that can punish Seth. 1a. Close stHk, stMp into whatever. 1b. Close stMk, Target Combo into whatever. 1c. Close stHp into whatever. 1d. Close crMp, Bushin Chain into Ex Hozanto. I recommend using these combos against Seth’s Normal SRK’s. To earn a little more damage you can dash under Seth’s Medium and Fierce SRK then do stHk, Bushin Chain into Ex Hozanto for maximum damage. 2. Against Seth’s Ex SRK theres no need to dash under because Seth’s Ex SRK naturally lands on the other side of you. Because it lands behind you can simply punish him with close stHk, Bushin Chain into Ex Hozanto for maximum damage. Also note if your in the corner and you block Seth’s medium or Fierce SRK, you can dash under him and do Ninja Sickle, Fierce Tatsu into Super for maxed damage.


#9

Corner Carry: Back Throw then Command Run.