cause if not then that was a waste of time upgrading that when they could have upgraded him in other ways
I think U1 is still better. It did make U2 useable, though.
You can Red Focus Dash Cancel into it for full animation, which is nice; but I still haven’t toy’d around with it enough to feel that it’s more advantageous than Metsu Hadoken. That’s basically my opinion: it’s cool that it’s more useful (i.e. can connect for full animation easier), but it still doesn’t seem to have the versatility of Metsu Hadoken. I mean, regardless of the Ultra you pick as Ryu, meter is fairly dependent in order to land it, but I feel Ultra 1 is simply more opportune in more situations. Also, Ultra 1 can punish more easily since it’s a projectile, if someone whiffs something with a ton of recovery but they’re full screen distance obviously Ultra 2 is useless in that situation, Ultra 1 however is not. If Metsu Shoryuken was as versatile as Metsu Hadoken overall than the damage alone would be a strong factor in argument for it’s use, unfortunately I haven’t found the versatility I need to justify even W Ultra, what with the damage scaling.
I seem to be the only person pushing W - Ultra.
Reasons I use W - Ultra:
-This thread: Which is more important to Ryu’s game, his hadouken or shoryuken? Lesson learned: you need both the be effective…
-Raw ultra punishes are still worth 1/3 of your opponent’s life.
-W - ultra shuts down jumping and zoning options.
-Focus attack crumples always lead to ultra 2. If you dash back, just dash forward and even though they look like they are grounded, ultra 2 hits.
-Using W - Ultra to punish non-true block strings, baited jumps, bad zoning, bad focus attempts, whiffs and ect… frees up your meter to use in zoning. THIS I FEEL IS THE MOST IMPORTANT REASON
-From a punish, you can still get 470+ damage if you want to blow the meter with ultra, especially if its going to kill.
-Because you are focusing on conserving meter, you have a reason to learn the character specific cheap on meter combos. IE: close standing forward xx EX hadoken link ultra 1. I’ll learn the hadoken fadc ultra 2 ones eventually, lol…
As a zoning character, I feel like the advantage in not having to save two meters to be threatening is worth it. That is not only 2 extra EX hadokens, but if you land them, you get the walk up pressure that could lead to more damage and don’t forget you also get more meter. Also, if you blow all your meter zoning, you still have multiple threats. The way ryu works, you should be able to bait a jump and ultra 2 punish. If you face another zoner, you can ultra 1 their fireball. Also, characters like Fei long can’t just walk up and focus in your face, they’ll eat an ultra 1 as well. I feel like W - Ultra completes Ryu as a zoning character in the ultra area and is the biggest buff he got. He doesn’t do heavy damage, but if you can knock out around 300 from zoning (about four hadoken hits or three deep shoryukens,) another 300 from confirms (one punish combo or two crouch forward xx EX hadoken combos) and the last 300 in an ultra punish, ryu doesn’t need any extra damage. At 900 damage, you can literally just threaten mash fierce dp vs anything to threaten the win from most of the cast…
Answering the title of the thread:
How I’m using ultra 2 buffs:
-Opponents used to be able to trade ultra 2 with certain attacks (trade ultra 2 = no cut scene and weak 1 hit of damage…,) the extra frame made it a true enough anti-air that I have yet to have it beat out by an air normal.
-EX dp buff lets me add the heavy damage of ultra 2 without the scaling of the red focus attack (counts as 2 hits.)
-EX dp buff also lets me punish moves in the range of -3 to -7 with ultra 2 damage as well.
Not a waste of time, but they needed to give Ryu something to counter the counter-fireball stuff. People ask for his mule kick, but I think a fake hadoken is what would make his tool set more complete (or even better, buff the recovery of regular hadokens.)
Oh baby, that would make me so happy.
That’s a damn good point, I guess I had considered the duality of those two moves being applied to ultra but disregarded them due to the damage scaling . . . suppose that makes me pretty shortsighted and uncreative. In a lot of ways when I play Ultra Street Fighter 4 I think that I’m still playing SSFIVAEv2012, and because of that I haven’t taken into account a lot of the changes that have subtly changed the game. I dismissed W ultra early when I saw the damage reduction and, rather out of hand, dismissed having both Ryu’s Ultras over the Metsu Hadoken at full damage. But your argument about Ryu’s overall damage output and having a stronger control of space and limiting the opponents options even more makes a strong case to dismiss the diminished damage of the Ultras over having either one to utilize at any given time during a round.
Couldn’t agree more. There’s always that back of the mind notion to conserve stock for FADC when I feel that Shakunetsu is such a versatile utility for Ryu. And you’re absolutely right in my opinion when you weigh the loss of overall damage from W ultra with having two additional stocks, assuming things are landing, that nearly brings the totals back to equality, and gives you more options.
I’ll definitely be looking at the things you pointed out and see how I can change my game plan, thanks for responding.
It’s still match up specific though. There’s practically no reason to use ultra 1 for Hugo… Vs Zangief, if he picks ultra 2, he can counter your ultra 2. Pick ultra 1 so that your dp doesn’t freeze the screen making it harder to counter your dp to ultra attempt. If he picks ultra 1, you’re free to pick ultra 2. If he picks w ultra, you should probably stick with ultra 1. Divekick twins and Rufus on the other hand will rarely give you those 8 frames you need to punish with ultra 2, so you’ll want to maximize you dp to ultra damage with straight ultra 1. Cammy’s dive kick can’t really mess up your ultra 2 spacing so if your reflexes are good enough w ultra is pretty good for her.
Besides that stuffs, the myriad of jump in option selects is ridiculous. True that dwu hurts jump ins, but when you get a sweep and they don’t dwu in time, they better just take the block…
I use it a little bit more thanks to exRFA
I will like if they patch it with some juggle property, imagine land it full in corner situations like srk->super->U2 (as now impossible) or stuff->exTatsu-> U2 (connect but lame multiple hits version)
I mostly agree with what Finkledoodoo said: having the W ultra makes the rival afraid of jump in and adds versatility to the character. However, I’m seriously thinking about having U2 as the main option. The fact that now you can SPS -> cl.mp xx EX RFC and it’s a 2-frame link is what makes me think of getting U2 as main. In almost all matches I’m able to land a SPS and the combo is easy. 483 of damage from a pretty safe move like SPS.
The main advantage of Ultra 2 is a high damage meterless punish. You can combo into ultra 2 for a bit more damage but you need three bars and a smart opponent will simply not let you do that by not doing anything too risky. Meanwhile ultra 1 can be confirmed with only 1 bar and allows you to catch the opponent off guard since you almost always have 1 bar. W ultra is interesting because it lets you save meter by just doing a raw ultra 2 but on the other hand if you choose to spend the meter your combos aren’t as damaging.
Pretty sure sps xx ex dp, fadc, u2 does better damage than that. If not it does with a c.hp link. I can’t remember which is was, but one is 500+. Same 3 bars.
close strong xx RFL1 is ok, but close forward xx hadoken xx RFL1 is more practical in a match. If you are confirming off of a jump in, you might just want to confirm the jump in hit and go straight into ultra 1…
The main advantage of ultra 2 is the mid screen damage. Since Ryu has great damage in the corner, U2 gives him the threat to do big damage out side of the corner. Ultra 1 does good damage, but if you chose to do it early, you’re doing w ultra damage or less. U2 early hurts, then you get a second one near the end of the match…
Ultra set ups are a take them as the come deal. Most of the time, ultra 1 is going to need two meters or no meters. I’ve been running the cheap combos since I got my hands on ultra and the chance to 1 bar outside of the corner is rare to the point where I drop ex hadoken links even though I practice them before every play session. Corner links are nice, but Ryu doesn’t corner people so often.
I’ve been working on ground ultra 2 combos that use 2 meters. You need to make your hadoken hit after its been out for a while. Messing around with training mode, I found that all jabs expand opponent hit boxes while crouch fierce pushes the opponent to reel back then recover forward. Lastly, hadoken hits also slightly enlarges the opponent hit box. If you put those together, you find that you can use a base combo of crouch strong for spacing, crouch jab to expand the hit box, crouch fierce to make space for the hadoken and the ending of FADC ultra has a good chance of connecting. Sometimes adding two jabs is necessary and sometimes subtracting the strong is necessary. I use crouch jab 2x crouch fierce xx hadoken a lot also. You can kara ultra 2 with round house, but I just started messing with that. It works, but I don’t know when its helping and when its hurting yet. Another thing is that far standing medium punch seems to have some type of reeling property, but I can’t pin point why I use it in certain situations. Once I figure it out, I’ll make a write up about it.
The same properties that help combo ultra 2 can yield free ultra 1 combos in the corner using strong shoryuken. I’ll work on those next.
It does more because focus attacks scale two tiers instead of one. EX shoryuken gets you cutscene while doing the same damage but less scaling… Mid screen close/crouch fierce ex dp u2 combos do the most while in the corner for 3 meters, you can close/crouch fierce xx hadoken fadc close/crouch fierce xx ex tatsu u1 is stronger.
Played around with W ultra yesterday to get a feel for Ultra 2. I main used it to punish big wiffs or off of focus attack crumples. Characters who don’t give you either of those opportunities I find it useless against, for example Abel. Using it for solely as an anti air is a waste in my opinion, might as well go with ultra 1 but everyone already knew that. On the other hand I played a lot against a Vega who kicked my ass and I only ever ended up using Ultra 2 thanks to focus attacks and punishing his ultra. In hindsight I should have just been using Ultra 2 instead of W Ultra but my Ultra 1 habit is too strong to quit. It’s also annoying when you have 2 bars but can’t combo into a full Ultra 1 using cl.hp xx srk fadc ultra 1 as a punish which does more damage than raw Ultra 2 with W ultra.
Your corner pressure with Ultra 1 is also much scarier and more rewarding. Overall it’s a different playstyle and I can appreciate that. I can finally stop using Ultra 1 and do something different with Ryu. The game feels a lot more dynamic and exciting with W ultra as I have to react quickly and decide if I am going to do an ultra or not and if so which one. W ultra just seems more fun to use, I don’t know if it’s as effective though.
Writing this post also made me realize that it would be convenient to have a way to differentiate between performing an Ultra with the W version or with the full version instead of writing “Ultra 2 with W Ultra” which is wordy and long. From now on I’m going to call it Wltra 2 or if that’s too corny W Ultra 2 and hope people know what I’m talking about.
Anytime you are using w ultra, you have to remember that ultra is no longer a comeback mechanic. W ultra lets ryu zone even if you’ve blown your meter. Use it not only as an EX bar or a blow up for unsafe pressure or bad jump ins, use it to buy time and/or build another bar of EX. Once you have hit your opponent with w2, you can safe jump them or hadoken trap them. Use that to build your next EX bar. If you hit them with w1, you can hurricane in for ground pressure or jab hadoken double shoryuken for the meter. If time is running low, why dp when w2 helps blows like 7 seconds on hit and all but guarantees you put them in block stun for another 2-3 seconds. 3 seconds left? Use w1 to timer scam (w2 is too quick.) Using ultra for more than just damage becomes a part of the match up you have to create for yourself. Even after that, there are ultra specific OSs and traps you can play around with. People see the damage and think WU is weak, but with Ryu’s damage already being decent, the options to simply hard knockdown and escape the corner off of a non cutscene w2 becomes as dangerous as high damage (now they are in the corner where ryu shines.) Rework, you should look beyond the match ups into situations. You’ll hear top players explain SF as a bunch of situations that lead in and out of each other. Use WU to start thinking that way. It doesn’t mean you ignore the match up, but you’ll get cornered eventually, someone will use bogus block strings on you eventually, you’ll need just a little bit more time and/or space to build that 1 bar eventually and ect…
As for your abbreviations, you may want to consider using u1 u2 w1 w2…
I didn’t know about Ryu’s safe jump after Ultra 2, that’s pretty good, however eventually people are just going to DWU when they learn about it themselves. Everything else you mentioned is largely useless however. I don’t see how ultra 2 helps ryu zone at all. His anti airs are already probably the best in the game if you use the proper ones. Also, smart players are going to jump at the right distances such that if they empty jump, your ultra 2 would wiff. I don’t see how it helps you build extra meter more than ultra 1, Ultra W/2 just lets you save meter by giving you a high damage meterless punish. Timer scams happen so rarely I wouldn’t count it as much of a benefit, and you said it yourself, Ultra 1 is a better timer scam so you might as well pick it instead. While it’s true that having one more move in your repertoire give you more options in more situations it’s not exactly a great move to begin with and it’s very high risk, you can punish it with a full focus.