Are there any tweaks/improvements/nerf you'd still like to see? (SSF4 Cammy changes)

cammy

#1

Just wondering. If anyone’s wondering what’s the point, I think it’s fun just to talk about this. People seem to be generally pleased with how her tweaks turned out. I can think of a number of things I’d like to see her be able to do, though.

This is MY wishlist I’m about to write, but feel free to discuss/agree with/dispute it or come up with your own suggestions. Also note that none of these suggestions are just mindless buffs for seeing my favourite character ‘rock’. It’s more targetted toward fixing redundancies and flaws in her moveset, and increasing the coolness factor of what she can do, like when we went “wow” the first time we saw five cannon strikes in a row into an ultra. So here goes:

  1. Give focus armour on her hooligan [EDIT: I’ve been convinced by others that this one is a BAD idea, see the rest of the thread]. This gives a chance for the razor’s edge slicer to land, and she can only be knocked out of the ball with fast normals, otherwise they have to crouch. She can still be thrown out of it. As a weaker version, just give focus armour on the later frames where she can no longer throw-cancel the hooligan and you become commited to the slide. Change to 150 damage on ex-slide to make it uniform with the cannon spike damage (100 100 100 150).

  2. Leave cannon spike damage the same, but change ex cannon spike air-to-air to 150 damage instead of 95 (it juggles air-to-air but this property is currently purposeless). ex-spike would then be 150 ground and air equally.

  3. Give her infinite juggle potential [EDIT: Please read later posts before you go apesh*t over this, so you know what I actually mean by it]. Damage scaling and the finite nature of the super meter would take care of this and prevent it from getting out of hand. Allow spiral arrow to juggle descending opponents. Allow air-throwing juggled opponents. With the correct spacing, the following would be possible: cannon spike, fadc, medium spiral arrow that hits the tip at the edge of the screen, cannon spike, fadc, air-throw.

  4. Increase ulra 2 damage to 490. It’s much higher risk than ultra 1, it stands to reason it should have more damage, not less. Although this alone wouldn’t make it the better ultra it’s a harmless start.

  5. Meaningless cosmetic change: change spiral arrow to cannon drill when she says it. Creates uniformity in the move-list: cannon spike/strike/drill. Cannons make me think of the british empire, so it fits the character thematically, I guess.

  6. Give Cammy both a forward and backward air-throw, like Guile. I believe she had this in another Street Fighter, I forget which. Or maybe she just had a different air-throw animation. I only remember it looked great.

  7. Allow ALL spiral arrows to go under plasma with the correct timing. I don’t know how many people know this, but ordinary spiral arrows go under all of Seth’s sonic booms and all of Gouken’s fireballs, but only if you time it correctly. The parts where she curls into the arrow shape and then uncurls afterward are hittable, so it isn’t a free pass, it requires timing and reactions and sometimes, depending on where you’re standing (like close in), it’s impossible, so it’s very difficult to actually PUNISH the fireballer with the arrow unless they start walking forward, and when a spiral arrow whiffs in front of them it’s open to punish.

In the exact same way, I’d like it to be this way for all other fireballs of the cast, except for the fireballs that are explicitly travelling low, like Juri’s low fireball and Sagat’s low tigershot. SBF would still be the better option for punishment.


#2

I wouldn’t change much about her now, I like how she plays and she’s not like A+++ God Tier. I liked her because she was average with potential in the right hands, if your buffs went through I think every scrub in the world would play out her appeal.

I would however give more options on the hooligan, for a combination it doesn’t really do much. I would LOVE to be able to either cannon strike or Ultra 2 from the hooligan, or even both. I think it’s a gimmick that becomes useless when the other person finds downback on the direction pad. Right now it’s just too easy to punish, and in comparison to other similar moves, for example Akuma and Gouken’s demon flips, it doesn’t feel like something the other person would be afraid of.

Anyway that’s about all I’d change, unlimited juggle is just ridiculously broken lol


#3

If you’re thinking that that means moves can juggle infinitely, then yes of course it’s broken. I said “infinite potential”, that means if you had an infinite meter and the moves were able to connect in the air quickly enough, neither of which is true. All it allows is for longer and flashier combos, and not terribly damaging ones.

The only buffs I suggested was improving ultra 2 damage slightly (no big deal), improving ex-CS air-to-air damage (which would make it identical to the air-to-air damage of the roundhouse version and just burn meter), focus armour on the hooligan (the biggest buff), and tweaking arrows to go under fireballs with heavy penalties as to when you can do it and having it easily punishable (something she can already do against three of the cast, and she has better ways of getting around fireballs in most circumstances).

I don’t want her to be A tier either. I think I made it clear what my intentions were right at the beginning of my OP.


#4

I’d like one more frame of hitstun on j.LK, a few more frames of start up off all of the spin knuckles(around 5 or so) and c.LK, c.LP, c.LK to count as a “target” combo so it would still special cancel even if you simply chain it instead of linking the last kick.

I’d also like a bit more throw range, especially on her air throw, but that’s likely too much to ask for.


#5

How much hitstun does j.LK do now?


#6

A faster Quick Spin Knuckle. It is supposed to be quick but it’s actually useless.


#7

Rofl. Focus armor hooligan would be so broken. The problem is they just need to cut the frames it takes to get the razors edge slicer, it’s an absurd amount and they never tweaked it. The only thing I want is better throw/airthrow range. It’s just embarrassingly low, and no, I’m sorry, her footspeed does not make up for it.


#8

You know focus armor hooligan can still be beaten by reversals, right?


#9

When being used as a meaty gimick, sure. Shockingly though, the move can be used in other situations. And it would be really good if it had armor in those. I mean hello, FP hooligan would be a free backthrow through fireballs, that is totally broken (and make ex hooligan pointless).


#10

Cannon Spike FADC Air Throw is what I’ve been saying since I understood what FADC was.


#11

I don’t think it’s broken, but it might be a bit too good since the only true way to avoid the hooligan grab then is to crouch-block, which allows Cammy to get in for free. Hence why I suggested an alternate version that only has armour after you’re committed to the slide (heck, it could even make her body partly invincible like SBF does). If you watch the Sako vs. Makoto match you’ll notice he only attempts 1 slide on one of the last two fights (can’t recall which) when he knows the fight is in the bag and can pull out some moves he hasn’t used the rest of the match–and he gets hit out of it. It’s junk, but it gets overlooked because the hooligan part is good. It does however have juggle potential and if its utility could be figured out a more refined version could have some use.

Now I think about it it could just be given better priority so that it is harder to poke Cammy out of it. Even then, though, I’m not sure what the move is for, except to throw people off who aren’t paying attention. I’ve landed it in weird situations like when people stick out a limb from quite a ways and it beats it out for priority and smacks them back. On one fight I hit a boxer out of it three times in a round in the exact same way–each time I did lp hooligan and for some reason he felt compelled to dash-punch in on queue to get hit on the slide part every time. Maybe he thought I was going to throw-cancel and thought I’d be vulnerable as I fell to the ground? I’ve also caught back-jumpers with it–it makes the ground in front of her feet unsafe like some sweeps do, and in certain (impossible to set up?) situations the opponent can’t avoid landing on it.


#12

You’re right, the idea was a bad one for that reason. But see above.


#13

Unlimited juggle potential would be retarded. She should however ground the opponent when she juggles with U1 a la like Sak does with her U1.

And kudos for not asking for an overhead, most people beg for that like there’s no tomorrow.


#14

11, same for j.LP right now for Cammy as well. I just think bringing it up to 12 would give a fair bit more leeway to actually combo off it on cross up, without going overboard. For comparison, her medium jumping attacks are 15, and heavy are 18. Actually, these may be universal values, but it does make cross up medium and heavy attacks better than lights, given equivalent hitboxes at least.

Taking the Spin Knuckles all down to 28 start up(-5 from medium) would significantly improve it against hadoukens, but I believe change almost nothing against the safe projectiles like sonic boom.

And it’s just kinda crappy Cammy gets stuck in the 4 way tie for worst throw range, and has the worst air throw too.

I take back making her c.LK, c.LP, c.LK into a “target” combo. Allowing chained lights to cancel needs to be implemented game wide, like it was in every CAPCOM game since Super Turbo other than the SFIV series. There was no need to go backwards on this one.


#15

I would love for Cammy to say Cannon Drill also a slighly more useful hooligan would be nice.


#16

This is the last time I’ll explain (maybe I should just edit my OP so people don’t keep getting confused). If by ‘retarded’ you mean OP, then no. It’s just a flag attached to the moves, it doesn’t mean she can actually juggle infinitely. She’ll be able to cannon spike 3 times, 4 against a wall vs a jumper, instead of 2, by burning full meter, but that would scale (280 damage from 3 spikes, 350 damage from 4 spikes, that’s only 50 more damage than what she got for 2 in vanilla!).

Heck, I’m not even that bothered about it being infinite so long as you can mix spiral arrows and air-throws into her juggle ability. I don’t want it to be something powerful, just useful and cool to see.


#17

When I first learned FADC the first thing i tried was to air-throw after. I only became convinced it was impossible after reading these forums. :slight_smile:


#18

Ok, while we don’t need to be able to air throw after an FADC’d Spike, it would be awesome. So that’s one I can certainly get behind.


#19

It would be an extra 50 damage over the now 100 damage cannon spike, but you break the juggle-string. This is why I wanted the ability to juggle further (and not just to an ultra), so you decide what the tradeoff is.


#20

I thought about it, but the whole down-back issue is part of Cammy’s game. She has to open them up, and WHEN she does, it’s game on. I used to think it looked daft that my opponent was always squatting on the floor, but the fact of the matter is Cammy likes to go for the legs and knock them off of their feet, and her opponent wants to protect their legs, so they crouch!