Are we ready to have low tiers?


#1

Not to make a tier list per se, but do you think as a community, we could make a list of high and low tiers (don’t need to be ordered) simply so we can have side tournaments/exhibitions that are low tier only.

Could give the game a bit of new life and it makes people figure more stuff out with the lesser used characters.


#2

No, because lesser-used characters are still viable in the current metagame.


#3

I’m not saying they’re not viable. Low tier doesn’t necessarily mean a character can’t be used. It just gives us another metagame to play with where some of the higher tier (I guess you could say more bullshit) characters don’t get to play.


#4

Low tier tournaments happened in Marvel 2 because low tiers weren’t viable.

That’s fairly far from the case in 3, it’s not something that should happen. Plus, you need people to 100% agree on who exactly counts as low tier, which isn’t happening any time soon.


#5

I would say it’s still too early to do this type of thing, and if we did would this idea really garner enough interest that it would get enough participants?


#6

There isn’t going to be an “official” or even widely agreed upon low tier list for tournaments.

If you want to run side tournaments banning certain things by all means do it, and I am sure there will be people behind it, just that it won’t be a widespread thing for a while, and probably never will be.

That being said, if our area were to run a low tier tourney, it would probably be limited to the following characters

Arthur
She Hulk
Ghost Rider
Nemesis
Hsien Ko
Tron
Chun Li
Iron Fist
Phoenix Wright

and I almost want to put Jill and Thor in there, but Thor has flight mode, and Jill has secret Killian Tech


#7

STOP


#8

So it’s gonna be Iron Fist/Hsien-Ko/Phoenix Wright mirror matches?


#9

Fair enough. I meant more of a meta of close to half the cast. Without your Zeros, Vergils, Dooms, Magnetos, Morrigans, etc. You know like the top 10-20.
I’m still enjoying the game as it is and I do play top tiers in tournament, but it could just be a way to get some variety out there and maybe make people go “hey that assist looks good I might play around with that character some more” or something like that.
If you banned the top “10-20” for a tournament, do you think there’d be a bunch of mirrors or a whole bunch of different teams? I think it’d be the latter. Some characters would be stronger than others, but I don’t think we’d get a bunch of the same teams/shells like we do in top tier play.


#10

If you banned enough characters, there would be an interesting meta.


#11

I agree, it would make streams more fun to watch for the people getting tired of how the metagame is developing. Not to mention, perhaps with motivation to actually try out the lesser used characters people may discover something and find out they aren’t as bad as we thought. Morrigan used to be low tier so you never know.


#12

Ban Vergil


#13

Honestly, the only characters that have no room for growth whatsoever are Iron Fist and Ryu. Now, I’m not saying they are bottom 2, but they do contribute so little and have so little that they will never, ever make top 20. Maybe some secret tech can come out and suddenly make Hsien-Ko or Wright god-tier, because this is Marvel. However, Ryu and Iron Fist really have no fancy tools going for them; they just suck.

Only characters worth banning are those that invalidate the lower half of the cast. Pretty much, you need to ban Vergil, Magneto, Viper, Wolverine, Zero, Firebrand, Spencer, Morrigan, and Taskmaster. I’ll even accept characters like Dante and Nova because I can see them having trouble against certain low tiers, but the others I mentioned can invalidate a fair amount of the cast.


#14

that cant be used because then about half the cast will be banned because i can name a large amount of characters that invalitde more than half the cast. trish can destroy anyone who doesnt have some sort of upward attack. viewtiful joes zoning can make it impossible for rushdown characters to get started.spiderman can end the entire cast if u use tac infintes and if u dont all the characters who dont have an air move. modok is similar to trish.theres probably more but i cant think of them.Also taskmaster?


#15

Well, I was thinking of a team limitation, not a hard one but a soft one. You could take a tier list, take each of the tiers (ex. S-D), and change them into numbers (ex. 5-1). The characters in each tier is assigned that number, and the teams enter can not exceed a set number (I’m thinking 12). That would keep the top tiers, but force a more creative approach to team-building. You couldn’t run a team of all top tiers, because that would exceed the limit.


#16

It wouldn’t cause a creative approach because there’s still gonna be optimal assists for a character and most non doom teams have a lower tier character as an assist. U can still have but know its gonna be filled with nemo teams,unibeam users,drones users,etc. also doing that will have to have different values if u run that character 1,2,or 3. Having team be banned because u run iron man point,doom,and novaI’m guessing u don’t want more than 2 A tiers and I’m ranking iron man as B ,Nova as A, and doom S. so that equals 12 and that’s a pretty shitty team


#17

Well, yeah that’s the point (Although Doom is more A for me). There are a lot of other really effective characters, no denying that. But the system would make team-building a little more varied, at least to a certain point.
Have an optimal assist isn’t a bad thing, and even picking a lower tier for an assist is still a step forward (as opposed to completely ignoring them).
And those other teams would be more than welcome, because it would at least be a change of pace. And those teams are probably more than combatable.
As for different positions, I don’t really think so. Other than making sure the value lines up, it up to the player to decide the best position for their characters. If they isn’t running the best order possible (in this case, Nova/IM/Doom), the it’s on them.
Overall, it’s just a way to initiate a little more thought towards the other tiers, instead of hard-banning the top tiers. Because I can guarantee, you ban a top tier, a “just under” top tier is going to wreck shop.


#18

I don’t like soft bans, or the convolution that involves rankings like that.


#19

U want it to be creative but if they dont have the best position it’s there fault? Why not just pick the most optimal team then?lets say I wanna run iron man on point and u like nova for unblockable setups and for an assist I pick doom to help with approach?well fuck me I guess my team is to top tier.(the thing with doom being A in your opinion just opens up another problem, who decides these things? TOs,top players,Evo?)


#20

Convoluted it may be, but I can tell you that a hard-ban will not easily even things out. You ban Vergil, and Strider reigns, then Phoenix, then Amaterasu, etc. (And I’m just talking anchors)
This game is only balanced by it’s inbalances (if that makes sense). If you just remove certain inbalances, it just tips over in a different direction, and you have another character who dominates. So you’ll have to ban them too (to keep things fair). And it just keep going, until you reach the bottom of the barrel (Irrelevant to those above, but fair to those below). You may have a tournament then, but the character selection would probably be just as shallow as picking the top tiers. Fun maybe, but not very long-lasting.