Armor cancel Tornado Throw?

abel

#1

Someone must have brought this up before, but I’m not finding any good information on it, on this forum or elsewhere. So EX CoD can be cancelled to a Tornado Throw, during the first couple of frames?

Apparently this is what he’s doing around 33 seconds in. I had to go right from vanilla to AE, so I don’t know much about Abel changes beyond messing up his cr.hp and damage nerfs all over the place.


Ask 801 Strider
#2

There was a thread way back then(vanilla days iirc), but since SRK done changed, some of the old threads kinda died (old links dont work anymore etc)

Anyway its called armor cancelling, i posted a similar video just a few days ago when i landed ex cod xx falling sky against Yun’s dive kick

You basically cancel the ex cod really quickly(almost instantly), into another special move you want except CoD/ex CoD.

It requires a meter to perform but doesnt necessarily cost meter, if you cancel the ex cod into a normal move, the meter wont be used up.

It might be pretty hard to execute this, especially for beginners, back then I didnt bother to apply this in a real match since I was focusing more on the fundamentals, and this technique might considered an advanced tech.

This is usually useful against meaty attacks, especially the kind that you cant just beat with an EX TT, and if you EX ROLL you’ll just get thrown.


#3

That’s interesting. How could it have been in vanilla? Never seen any of the top Abels use it until videos in the past couple months.


#4

I think maybe its because its very situational, kinda tricky to execute/easy to mess up, and not really that practical in a match.

I’m sure most of the “top”/veteran abels knew about it, they just didnt see the need to use it that much/at all.

Even back then there were some videos online about this technique, but yeah, its not stable enough to be used in a high stake situation e.g. tourney etc.

As for now, maybe it has become almost a must-learn in order to deal with Yun’s close pressure.


#5

Its an old move, been around since Vanilla for sure. I think anyone with an EX super armored move can armor cancel into any special and possibly ultra (correct me if Im wrong) Im pretty sure it was first found with Rog, and its semi useful for him because he could cancel his ex dashes into a different dash, getting more armor. Good for Guy and Fuerte’s runs as well. But its almost like parrying, except wayyyy more situational and maybe harder. Requires a very good read of your opponent…


#6

Maybe harder? A lot harder, and yes, you can cancel it into ultra.


#7

Any tips for armour cancelling? I recorded 2p doing fireballs but I can’t even cancel out of my COD even once. :frowning:

Do you only need to do qcf+3p to cancel into ultra since the ex cod has the first qcf?

Can you negative edge the cancel?


#8

I think if you wanna practice armor cancelling, record the cpu sweeping you and then do a safe jump setup.

Armor cancelling ex fireball into ultra, i dont think that has any practical use lolz

I believe you can negative edge the cancel yeah. The timing is just super strict, easier to do on wake up against meaty attacks.


#9

yeah i practiced armor cancel by recording yun sweep and then a meaty dive kick, 2x cr strong(first one meaty), and/or 2x cr jab(first one meaty)…it feels so gdlk when you pull it off in a match lololol


#10

Armour canceling is easy on meaty jump ins though most of the time ex TT will work as well. It seems impossible to do it outside of wake up. Anyone got tips for that cause it would fix a lot of Abel’s footsy anti air problems.


#11

Armor cancelling is a more difficult option on meaty jumpins or safe jumps than ex tt but it covers more options than ex tt. If you were to ex tt and the opponent OS throw/ dp reversal then you lose. AC TT negates those options. It’s possible but pretty impractical outside of wakeup.
It’s also possible on meaty crossups if you reverse the second part of the input. So AC TT on crossup becomes qcf 2p, qcf p… if that makes sense. It works better on some characters than others and the less safe the jump in the less likely it is to work. Some characters it may not even make sense keeping it in your head for. Other characters like ryu or ken it’s very helpful.

On a final note, Abel has amazing anti air options in neutral positions. they’re just situational. st mp, cr.mk into roll mixup, cr. hp which is about to be strong again. close st. hp beats some crossups. trade ex falling sky does damage to you but causes a knockdown, far st mk is slow but good for keeping opponents grounded when you anticipate a jump (still slow though so can be punished).


#12

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its super easy on wake up if they do a safe jump or a jump in (cancelling into TT that is). Cancelling into FS is a bit tricky but once you learn it its not that hard, just use the input for CoD and put the stick back to down/downforward (if you try to do the input of FS after CoD with full meter super will come out from my experience). though you gotta watch out, if the jump in is timed off (not really a safe jump) cancelling into TT can whiff so if it looks off better off cancelling into jab falling sky. doing this against a fireball / normal move or w/e is hard but obviously doable but practical? not really. You will be seeing more abels doing this on wake up (or i hope so)


#13

so far ive used armor cancel tt against dive kicks, maybe some other stuff but mostly dive kicks

i usually use armor cancel to roll away against wake up oses

strider also told me that during an ibuki jab etc pressure, armor cancel tt is viable too though i guess if she blocked the cod you can eat a standing jab combo

whatever though my matchup knowledge is gettin rusty…


#14

I was wondering why regular roll and regular wheel kick wasn’t working. At least I’m not the only one.

Messing around with it more and I’m pretty much completely consistent with it if I start from a down back position first. The messed up leniency of the game I think just makes shit easier that way. I’ve been pretty much exclusively using it to make opponents second guess what they do on my wake up. Feels like a lot less of a gimmick when I see character specific applications.


#15

^ my guess is that, there is some start up to roll and wheel kicks (normal versions) while fs and tt feel like they come out instantly in a sense. And since ex versions of wheel kick / roll come out pretty fast / instantly too its possible to cancel into those only if you waste the meter.

@hfx yeah there are situations where you are getting pressured heavily that i see this working. i was talking about like in general trying to use this against footsies poke. i had someone msg me on youtube asking if it would be viable. but yeah i could definitely see this being a viable option against dive kicks, ibuki’s jab pressure stuff and situations similar. this is a very situation based tactic imo.


#16

Can someone with a console nearby test whether you can do EX CoD into normal roll, but with using LP + MP for the EX CoD and then HK for the roll? Just throwing out ideas - it may have to do with button priority.


#17

i am pretty sure i tested all versions, jab/strong/fierce/rh but i will double check again tomorrow. i mean i was able to consistently do armor TT where as i could never do armor roll once… will update 2morrow (unless someone does it before me)


#18

i have this vague memory of armor cancellin into a normal roll but the other day i did try again and never managed to do so lol


#19

I’m very certain that os meaty jump in does not beat Abel’s reversal wake up ex TT. I just went into training mode to confirm.


#20

^ true

also i did do the testing. wasn’t able to cancel into regular throw. you can test it if you want its very easy (i only tested for like 2 mins but i was convinced since i was able to cancel into TT/FS every time i tried.) I tested 2 ways. Since when you cancel into ex roll you dont even have to do the inputs for the roll since its the same as ex CoD. you can just do ex CoD xx 2 kicks and it will cancel into ex roll. Tested that way for 1 min didnt work, tested with actually doing inputs still couldn’t get regular roll. Only ex works. I tested another 2 mins doing wheel kicks and yes i used short/forward/rh mixing it up seeing if any variation would work and to answer your question electric i personally couldn’t do it. so do i think its possible? im going to say no. would love to see if someone could prove me wrong but i dont think that will happen. oh well abel can cancel into TT / FS and its better than if you would want to cancel into regular roll / regular wheel kick anyway (better than if you were to cancel ex also honestly)