Assist Discussion and Debate


#1

I think a lot of us here enjoy talking about the future of the metagame, where it will go, etc. Assists are very important in Marvel v Capcom 3 for several reasons. In this thread, we discuss and debate the pros and cons of the various assists, discuss strong assists, weak assists, overrated, underrated, versatile, specific, etc. Eventually perhaps create some sort of loose tier list among the assists.

I’ll start by highlight Shuma’s Mystic Ray, I don’t think many people are talking about it, because Shuma is new to the scene, but it hits basically everywhere on the screen, does decent damage, not to mention it can extend combos. It comes out pretty quickly and also hits OTG.

I also wanted to also highlight Tron’s Gustav Fire, which is amazing (which we all know), Tron’s small hitbox (and some invincible frames?) make the move amazing. Does surprisingly high damage, and allows many things to be safe. Works great with characters that need to get in your face more, such as Skrull or Haggar.

The meter charging assists (Morrgian and Ammy’s) I feel are fairly overrated, not only because they have better options (Shadow Blade and Cold Star) but overall, meter building is pretty easy in MvC3, so they are almost unnecessary.


#2

i hear a lot of people talking about shuma’s mystic ray. in fact, there are usually only 2 things i hear about shuma, either his lvl3 or that assist.

i remember people in the beginning using morrigan meter build assist mid-combo just to build up extra meter (i.e. flash and clakey d with their trons), but i think it’s best suited for keepaway characters (i remember a trish/morrigan/phoenix team in top16 at final round i think, cant remember the name). honestly though, i just haven’t seen a lot of keepaway players so far, its either rushdown or a hybrid, but never really pure keepaway.

there were a few arthur players a while back, but i don’t really think he has a strong keepaway game. (good zoning, but bad keepaway). this makes him reliant on using an assist for keepaway support, and thus can’t really afford to use that meter building assist.

i’m not really sure why you think its overrated…not many people even use it in the first place (i.e. no one at all in high level play afaik). it’s not bad i don’t think, but it’s not that great either–but like a lot else in this game, “it has it’s use”. if or when people start playing heavy keepaway games, then i think you’ll start to see it get used a bit more.


#3

Mystic Ray doesn’t come out fast…at all. That’s the only thing holding it back. If it came out any faster, Wesker would wet his pants for OTG assists…


#4

Mystic ray is about as slow as it gets, and it’s too slow as an assist to otg.

For the meter building assists - some teams need meter. It definitely has its uses, and I haven’t seen them being recommended outside of teams that use a ton of meter, so I don’t know how it’s being overrated.


#5

Mystic Ray is AMAZING. I’m putting in the top 3 along with Gustaff Fire and Hidden Missile. It hits everything. Ain’t nobody can run away from it. It can even hit Air Trick, lol. You can’t get past it, ever. If it was fast enough to OTG, Shuma’d be on every team I play in no time.

OTG/low/overhead assists are overrated. Even Wesker’s, though not as much as others.

Taskmaster Parabolic Shot is really awesome. All his assists are awesome on the right team, but this one controls the air in a way that really helps certain styles, like Chris.


#6

No mention of Hsien-Ko’s DF+Senpuu Bu yet? It’s powerful enough to warrant its own little set of strategies to counter it. It’s a bit hyped, but it’s definitely formidable.

Though it’s easier said than done, baiting the assist by jumping in and back out, then hitting it (preferably with a beam or beam hyper) puts a dent in Lei Lei. Snapping her back in is also effective, seeing as most of the people who use her don’t know how to play as her on point. Hitting it with a hyper like Bionic Lancer is also very effective.

Now if only the rest of her game were more effective? oh, the possibilities.


#7

Not necessarily. I’ve seen combos that utilize hidden missiles as an OTG, and that’s far slower.


#8

With effort you can make anything combo into anything. But it’s not reliable to use as an OTG after an air combo ending in jS, not in the same way deadpool or wesker’s assists are.


#9

Going to disagree on Morrigan. Soul Fist and Shadow Blade are only useful in specific cases and are out-shined by other projectile/GTFO assists. Shadow Blade has fast start-up but no invulnerability, so it’s only marginally useful as an anti-air (unless used as a crossover counter, in which case it actually is invincible through the first hit). Conversely, extra meter is almost always useful, but there’s of course the question of whether you actually need it or whether a different character’s assist would help your specific team more in general.

If you actually intend to use Morrigan for more than her assist, though, then I think putting her on 2nd position or anchor and using the meter-building assist whenever you can afford to is the most logical choice. Stocking up on extra meter when possible, even if the rest of the team doesn’t really require it, is a huge boon to her once she’s on point. Morrigan with meter is way, way more effective than without. Being able to burn meter on Shadow Servant (excellent lv1 half-second invincible punish), Astral Vision (improves her zoning game exponentially), or even Darkness Illusion (half-second invincible, only lv3 that can be used in air) without a second thought is a pretty big deal. Astral Vision + XF3 makes her a great anchor imo. She has decent enough tools without meter but has to work so much harder for damage in that case.

If you have no intention of using Morrigan on point, then yeah, it’s not a terribly useful assist unless you’ve got safe full-screen hypers you want to fire off constantly as some part of a keepaway game.


#10

No mention of akuma’s tatsu and haggar lariat, pretty damn gtfo assist if you ask me haggar’s especially evertime I fight someone that has the lariat assist i have to rethink my game plan because I rush down hard with zero.


#11

Personally I think the meter building assists (especially Morrigan’s) is useful for run away teams that don’t get many opportunities to combo for meter. My Phoenix based team is Trish/Morrigan/Phoenix, with the basic plan of staying in the air with Trish while calling Morrigan for meter while at super jump height (you can call assists if you normal jump, fly, air dash up to super jump height. Normally you can’t call assists after a super jump) I can play mostly risk free with Trish and build enough meter before they get a chance to snap in Phoenix.

Also, Haggar. Double Lariat is amazing in so many ways. The obvious being it’s fully invincible for like 40 frames or something close. This is extremely useful for punishing things like random supers that you normally couldn’t punish safely. For example, if Ryu does a point blank hyper, you can block it and call Haggar during the super flash. Then you can combo. The other great thing about it that I don’t think many people take advantage of is it causes unrecoverable knockdown. This means you can OTG after it easy. Haggar assist, Rocket Punch OTG into super, so good. The only problem is that you have to protect Haggar if you miss it or if they block it, but that’s not too hard to do. It also beats Tron assist which is nice.

Also a big fan of Dante’s Jam Session assist. Very versatile. Great thing to react to super jumps with, especially with characters that seem to (or need to) abuse super jumps a lot, like Hulk or Wolverine or Haggar. It’s also a projectile so it can act as a shield to low priority stuff, but watch out for hypers. And since it hits multiple times it’s good for pinning people down while you mix them up with a point character. Dante’s a pretty good asset by himself too so he’s good for teams.

And of course, the drones. Sentinel assist is useful for pretty much anyone. The best part being the gaps between each drone allowing you to cross up with teleports or air dashes for stupid mixups.

IMO _____/Sentinel/Haggar works with just about anyone on point. Sent/Haggar is the new Sent/Commando. Notable point characters for this pairing are Deadpool, Dante, Taskmaster and Dormammu. But again, anyone could probably work well with Sent/Haggar.


#12

I had a lot to say about all of the assists mentioned thus far, but it was turning into a small novel so I decided against posting it :rofl:

With that said, I personally think Hidden Missles is… hit or miss with me.
It’s a very good assist, but it’s a double edged sword. It’s the kind of assist that you need to understand exactly how it works in every situation, or it’s going to mess you up just as much as it will mess up the other player.
Clockwork has no issues using it, so he proves that it can be very valuable to a variety of characters, but he has spent a lot of time perfecting how and when to use it.

If we’re going to create an Assist tier list (I know there are a couple floating around the character tier list thread already), I know we’ll eventually have a top 10 overall. Did you plan on creating a tier list based on the different categories of assists as well? I think that could be something fun to work towards eventually after a solid top 10 starts to form in this thread. At the very least, it would lead to a lot more discussion on the subject which is never a bad thing.


#13

Glad to see so much feedback.

And yes, the drones, OMFG, the drones are sooooooooooo good, they are insanely good for zoning, they do great damage, great for cross ups (really help out Skrull big time), and can help with other combos.

I think Chun’s Legs are slightly overrated, everyone was hyping about them because J Wong kicked ass with them, but they stay out too long and can be punnished, and unlike hidden missiles, if you punish her, the legs don’t interrupt the punish later.

Speaking of hidden missiles, they are really good, probably not top 3 though IMO. I’m thinking top 3 in no order is Tron fire, drones, and possibly mystic ray.

Hsien Ko’s Hyper Armor assist is great, it really is, but I hate the fact that you have to set up an assist… but it’s really fucking crazy, because it just interrupts everything, and does amazing damage too.

**Lariat **is good, but I feel Tron Fire is better because you don’t have to pay damage for it, and Haggar is too tall, so I feel Tron hits shorter characters better.

I’m a Skrull player, so I’m biased, but I think people are sleeping on Orbital Grudge, it’s great for combos, does good damage, and comes out faster than you think it does.

**And yes, eventually, an overall tier list along with a tier list based on specific categories would be nice, i.e. best GTFO assist, best beam assist, best zoning tool, etc. **


#14

Also just to follow this up, if and when you put Haggar on point, Sent Drones are probably the best assist to go with him. They let Haggar get in so easily, plus it also allows crossup pipe set ups which are hilarious.


#15

Awesome, glad to hear that you would like to see that as well.

I also agree with you that Chun-Li’s lightning legs are incredibly overrated.
Yeah, they work similarly to Tron’s fire, but a) Tron’s fire is incredibly difficult to punish and, b) Tron’s fire doesn’t damage scale anywhere near as badly as Chun-Li’s legs. They’re pretty good if you just want something that creates a lot of hitstun, but they’re worthless anywhere near the beginning of a combo, especially if you use her in conjunction with a character who already does less than average damage (such as Trish).

Gustaff Flame > Lightning Legs any day of the week. There are better options than her lightning legs, but if you don’t have anyone else on your team who can cause some decent hitstun she’s better than nothing.

In regards to Dante, most everyone would agree that his Jam Session assist is very good and is arguably his best assist, but I’ve come to greatly appreciate Weasel Shot. It’s very similar to Ammy’s Cold Star, but it has a deeper angle of attack and, as far as I know, is slightly less punishable than Ammy when she performs Cold Star. I want to say it scales damage less than Cold Star, but I haven’t tested it so I can’t say either way. Definitely underrated though, mostly because Jam Session is so good so everyone uses that.


#16

I remember playing you online, before. I agree with you, ____/Sent/Haggar is very strong, I think that Dante benefits the most out of that team though. Simply because Dante’s teleport with Sent drones creates an ambiguous situation where his teleport can land in front of you due to drones pushing you around. I still have problems defending Dante teleport, too. Also if Sent is on point he has Dante assist for help with some flying pressure. This is all from a defender’s standpoint, cause I don’t play these teams.

I still laugh a little when people post saying Dante’s teleport is easy to deal with. Even upper bracket tournament streams Dante teleport still works, even without assist.


On topic a bit more. I think the meter building assists work much better with characters that players want to run from. Like Haggar with Morrigan assist, people run from Haggar trying to respect the pipe, so you can get plenty of meter building calls.


#17

What do you guys think about Sentinel’s two other assists?

Also a note about Storm, I’m not as big of a fan of Whirlwind as everyone else seems to be, comes out way too slow.


#18

i dont like whirlwind at all in this game :shake: its slow, pushes them back, and is hard as shit to combo off of. all in all storm has pretty…situational assist


#19

Agreed, typhoon could be good if it came out faster though


#20

I’m also disappointed with storms assists. Once that DHC trick is gone I might have to say goodbye to her, which is too bad because I like her.

About that _______/Sent/Haggar, how do you avoid getting lamed out if it comes down to Haggar only.