Attn: For Buyers and Sellers! Tips to avoiding Paypal fraud! Protect yourself!

I an honest very disappointed and mad after all these seller failed to fulfilled their orders and with all the disappointed buyers without their money and their item, I think it’s time that I put some tips together to prevent fraud from my experience as a seller and as a buyer.

If you are a seller:
Follow the proper paypal procedure, stick to your words and you are reasonably safe.

Just because you receive payment doesn’t mean it’s yours! Refuse payment if requirements are not met because you will lose your payment AND your item!

Paypal has a program called Seller Protection, in order to qualify, make sure

  1. Confirmed Address - Make SURE the buyer has a confirmed address. A confirmed address means the paypal address matches with the credit card address. If you ship to an unconfirmed address, and a chargeback do occur, in most cases you are losing your product and your money. Change your preference in paypal to accept confirmed address only!

  2. Delivery Confirmation - This is another must to proof that the item has been shipped to the destination. This will prevent buyers for saying that they never received the item!

  3. Signature Confirmation - If your item is over 250 USD in value, you MUST get this option in order to be protected in the protection policy. Also, if your buyer is confirmed yet not verified. You can use a signature option to allow the buyer to get the item after showing their ID, that way you are protected against another layer of fraud if the buyer is not verified! This way that cannot do a chargeback at you because the signature would be on file!

  4. Buy insurance - Make sure you don’t cheap out and buy the appropriate insurance because you are liable for the item until shipped to destination. If your item is lost, stolen during freight, you are held liable. You can only buy insurance for tangible items, non tangible items are not covered by insurance.

  5. NEVER do a Paypal pickup - this option means the buyer pays with paypal and yet request for a local pickup. IMO, NEVER EVER DO THIS OPTION and its the most risky one because the person can pick up the item and said he never received it. 100% lost for you guaranteed. If it is an intangible unit, print out a copy!

  6. 7 Day Rule - Paypal has a rule in which to qualify for the Seller protection, you must send the item out 7 days after it has been paid. So be smart, get the payment in the appropriate timeframe and you will be okay.

  7. Arrange Local Pickups - If possible, arrange local pickups so you get hard cold cash. Look up ways to identify fake cash and meet at a public place with people and lighting. This is the safest way to go.

  8. Keep your PMs, take some pictures before you ship it out - Keep your PMs with the buyer so if the buyer do a unreasonable chargeback, you have pms to back you up.

General Guidelines

  1. GOOD FAST COMMUNICATION - this is the only way for a buyer to trust that you are active and always keep them updated! Do not get the money and slow down on the communication. You are asking them to file a chargeback

  2. DO NOT tackle on more than you can take - come on if you know you won’t be able to do say 6 boxes a week, don’t be so greedy and just let the buyer know. Theres too much money to be made, but you can’t have them all.

  3. Specify method of payment - Specify your own method of payment. One way that worked for me is to take a small deposit if you are busy, then after you are free to start, take another deposit, and when complete, take the complete payment and ship it! My way is 20, 20, 60 if I am busy or 40, 60 if I can start right away. Consider it!

Just follow the guidelines and you are safe!

If you are a buyer:
You are in luck because the Paypal business model is geared towards protecting buyers and I am serious. You have the right to do a chargeback within 45 days!

1.Dispute or Chargeback - for up to 45 days from the date of payment, if you have an tangible item that you paid for and never received, you can go to paypal and file a dispute.

2.Call you credit card company - within 90 days of payment, you can call your visa company and talk directly to them. Make sure you send the appropriate information to them, a lot of times you will win with a good backup of information, trust me on this.

  1. Arrange Local Pickups - if possible, arrange local pickups and pay on the spot so you can inspect the item before purchase. Look up ways to identify fake cash and meet at a public place with people and lighting. This is the safest way to go.

  2. Keep your PMs - If you do in fact do a chargeback, Paypal or the credit card company will ask for information, without these, you are pretty much screwed. If you have too much, you can select the message you want to save, and at the bottom right, you can save it as CVS or TXT. SAVE THEM.

General Guidelines:

  1. Do not trust a stranger - I do not care how legit they seem and how many feedback they got, shit happens in life and sometimes money is the only way to fix it, even if they don’t want to, with the money already in their account, who knows?

  2. PM IS KEY - the best way is to PM the buyer before attempting anything, no information is lost on the product itself. A couple times, I receive payments and I honestly had no idea who it came from or if it did, I have no idea what specification they want for their custom sticks! PM IS KEY.

3.Ask for a guaranteed timeframe - on forums like this one, the ONE and ONLY way to prevent this is to limit the payment date and date of shipment of products to the timeframe that a chargeback can occur. So at the time of payment, ask the seller for a timeframe of the date of shipment provided with tracking. It must be within 25-30 days (it should really take no more than 20-25 days i don’t care how busy you are, I am a stick builder myself, worked with wood and now metal, and I know how long it takes for a completed stick), allowing 15-20 days to ship which is more than enough. If no tracking detail is provided in 30 days, just do a chargeback. Don’t listen to bullshit excuse only to find out you are screwed and cannot file a dispute on Paypal.

That’s all I have for now, will update some more after dinner. I will also update this as people give suggestions.

good stuff man, i hope every stick builder here think like you, is very sad seeing sellers scamming people left and right.

someone sticky this! everyone buyer and seller should know this

You can’t actually file a SNAD (Significantly Not as Described) on your payment UNLESS it is for an ebay purchase. Be aware that if they send you absolutely anything and put delivery confirmation on it, there is no way to recover your paypal funds outside of ebay.

hey MasterKojiro
Thank you. I really wasn’t aware of that, sorry for misleading everyone.

I didn’t actually know that until I had someone send me a box full of toilet paper when I bought something on another site. Needless to say, I don’t think he realized that I didn’t mind driving two states away to his house to collect my item :slight_smile:

What the heck? What were you supposed to receive?

It was for a collection of about 400 anime DVDs. It turned out that my dad had to go that way anyway, so we stopped by his house and basically

Hi, are you “X”?


I see, I came to pick up my anime collection.

You did?

Yeah, you sent out a box of toilet paper on accident, do you still have them here?

Needless to say, he was very nice after that and made sure I got everything he owed me.

ROFL. I wish I could see the look on his face when you showed up at his door.

Must’ve been like:

hahaha no way eh, that’s mad jokes
that’s a kodak moment right there haha

I did something like that once, but it was a car that was owed. My friend bought a car on eBay from MO (we were in CA) and then he got shipped off to Iraq and he told the seller that he was going to Iraq. My friend payed an extra $900 for shipping and never recieved the car, so when he left I called another friend and was like, “Hey, you wanna go to Missourri?” “When?” “Tomorrow.”

36 hours of driving/refuel stops later we knocked on the dude’s door. With the police.

He was very kind in person lol

Edit: I also support the sticky movement.

hahaha no way! that’s mad jokes, these stories are getting better n better. So was he charged at the end?

No, I just had the police with me for a “Stand by” is what they called it. It was basically to be sure the guy cooperated. Fun trip though =)

Um, why am I so confused???:looney:

oh i am sorry about for the confusion, what i meant was if the buyer pays you through paypal then come pick it up locally and if the buyer dispute, that’s it, ur moneys gone. Hope I cleared it up. Edited it.