No idea why they haven’t fixed this in MAME or FBA or any other emu. But it’s probably because these are multi-arcade board emulators not necessarily about accurately emulating one single family of boards.
In the SF2 games, the EEPROM (power on initialization) test is too fast. This occurs on any emulator that shares a similar CPU core (MAME, Finalburn, Kawaks). However, THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN ON CALLUS. The callus initialization is arcade exact. I have reset the arcade machine many times (mainly, to see which revision I was playing :>), so I am familiar with the speed of the test scrolling. Note: the EEPROM RESET speed is identical in WW, CE, and HF.
even the CPS2 eeprom resets are too fast, but I have only verified this with CPS1 eeprom reset initializations. The CPS2 resets are taken from “memory”, as I have only seen a CPS2 reset from power off a few times. So take that with a grain of salt.
Another thing worth careful noting, is that this EEPROM initialization is closely tied in to the CPU speed of the game, even if the throttling is disabled (SF2:WW, CE). Overclocking the CPU and resetting the game in the emulator makes the EEPROM initialization go even faster. (I have no idea whether this occurs in the arcade machine–how many people have seen an overclocked PCB?
There is something more that MAMEDEV needs to note here.
Setting the CPU to 65% (which results in arcade perfect speed–remember folks, SF2:HF plays too fast at anything higher than 8 mhz) in SF2: turbo hyper fighting, still does not fix the EEPROM test. Even setting the CPU to 60% (slower than a real machine) has the test run too fast.
Now, before I get flamed for posting something insignificant, WHY DOES CALLUS HAVE THIS SPEED ARCADE PERFECT? And, isn’t the goal of emulation to have everything accurately emulated 100% ?
If something like the eeprom test is wrong, who knows what else can be affected ? What if in fact, the CPS1 SF2 games actually ran at 10 mhz (instead of the 7-8 mhz that is “proper” for accurate play in SF2:HF), but whatever is causing the EEPROM speedup, is also somehow affecting the throttling code, and possibly forcing a SLOWER cpu ?
68k bug? Some unemulated code that needs to be looked into?
Of course, the EASY answer to this would be to ask Sardu, since he got it right. But Sardu isn’t around anymore. In addition, the source for Callus isn’t available. And what CPU core did Callus use ? is it a different one from the one MAME uses? Could that be a factor?
This needs to be investigated, as this little “thing” could solve some much bigger problems. And I think that experienced testers will agree with me (right, Bugfinder?
I think this should be submitted into the bug reports section, and any feed back is welcome.
IF ANYONE HAS A REAL SF2 PCB, PLEASE CHECK THIS.
And please check it, Vs Callus, and vs MAME set to 65% CPU 0.
Funnily enough an older discussion started by the same guy, looking for the same thing. So I guess the answer to his question would be no there is no perfect emulation, probably because there’s not enough demand. Anyone serious enough about SFII to want perfect ports is either playing Hyper Fighting or ST.
Capcom Generations Volume… Volume 5 IIRC. On both Sega Saturn and PlayStation.
It also may have shown up on a compilation disc for PS2 and Xbox, Capcom Classics Collection, of which there are two volumes. However from what I’ve heard these versions have emulation issues and/or input lag.
So yeah Capcom Generations 5 is your only option if you don’t wanna use MAME or a board for World Warrior.
That said, if you want Turbo, I recommend Xbox 360 port.
has online play (though nobody plays :() and it’s based on the Generations port, but it’s not WW. WW is really a curiosity, only 8 selectable characters and some weird bugs, but I totally understand in fact I’d love to whip out WW it’s cool to see where SF2 started.
Have you discussed this with the MAME guys on their forums?. It sounds pretty interesting. Did you try it out yourself?
And are you sure that it’s still an issue in the current MAME version and not a thing that was tested 10 years ago and is just assumed to be still correct today?
Callus doesn’t run on my computer since it insists on using 16 bit color mode and a screen resolution of 640 x 480.
But even if you don’t have an original board, it should be easy to compare Callus with the current version of MAME to check whether the differences with the bootup screen or the speed in “Hyper Fighting” still exist.
Interesting. Before seeing it again, I didn’t remember that I had created such a thread yet.
It’s still not exactly the same. For example, the PlayStation version has the word “Fight” and the word “Battle” farther apart from each other.
MAME does fix the issue but it seems they have not found a way yet to accurately boot the arcade machine, like Callus. So MAME has to adjust the CPU speed manually instead.
The guys at Bloodlust were geniuses back then. Genecyst, Nesticle and Callus were years ahead and paved the way for modern emulators.
If I have the authentic SF2 board (with the ROM chips), is there anything that it can be played on besides an original CPS-1 board?
What I mean is: Analoguous to Super Nintendo clones that can play genuine Super Nintendo cartridges, have they ever created a clone of the CPS-1 board?
After all, the concept is basically the same: The CPS-1 board is the “console”, i.e. the base machine that includes the CPU, but no game code whatsoever. And the SF2 board or any other game board is the “cartridge”.
Therefore, in the same way that console clones don’t break any copyright rules as long as they don’t include any actual games, but rely on genuine cartridges that are played with them, creating a CPS-1 clone without creating a clone of the SF2 board with the ROM chips should be equally legal.
The original CPS-1 board seems to be very fragile. All but one of them that I’ve ever seen had graphics errors. (Like stripes etc.) And some seller told me that he has about 20 boards and all of them have faulty graphics.
So, getting a working SF2 board (the B and C board) is pretty easy, but getting the CPS-1 board (the A board), you have a very high chance that something’s wrong with it.
Does a CPS-1-compatible device exist that can play the original game boards?
CPS2 comes out with A and B boards. Effectively a game board and a motherboard. It runs completely different games. You can swap out a game board and attach another game board to a motherboard. To play that game instead,
Think of it like the 16 bit SNES. You can’t plug and play a NES game on there can you? http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=795
Keeping that in mind I have heard something to the effect that you could swap some roms from the different verisons of SF2 on the CPS1 boards effectively converting them from WW to CE or HF. However authentic HF boards run at a different frequency from WW and CE. So the game could play faster or slower than intended depending on which way you went. Though I never tried it so that may all just be BS for all I know.
Now there is something called a CPS1 14 in 1 board that has 14 CPS1 games installed via extra rom chips and extra programming. However from my experience that tends to be a bit glitchy. Well at least the CPS2 version was so I’d assume that the CPS1 would also be glitchy.
Erm, yes, exactly. This pretty much proves my point: The NES is a generic console where you can switch the cartridges. The NES is not a one-game-only-device.
So, why do you think that the NES is a good analogy to your theory that the CPS-1 is an individual game board that only plays one game? The NES is an exact analogy to my description:
NES --> CPS-1 board (i.e. processor, but no ROMs)
Game cartridge --> ROM board
A better analogy of what you believe the CPS-1 to be would be the Game & Watch.
The NES is pretty much exactly what I said about the CPS-1 board.
Everything you say about the CPS-2 is also true for the CPS-1. Both are boards where the games can be switched.
And again your analogy doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
Well, o.k., the comparison between SNES and CPS-2 is sound. But in the context of your previous words, the whole stuff is nonsense:
You compare the NES to a one-game-only device while you compare the SNES to a multiple-games-device?
Erm, no. Just no. NES and SNES are both consoles where you can switch the games.
(Ironically, comparing the NES to the CPS-1 and the SNES to the CPS-2 is still correct because, unlike your statement, the CPS-1 is a multiple-game-device, just like the CPS-2.)
Now your analogy is just all over the place. Because I never ever tried to claim that you can play CPS-1 games on a CPS-2 board, so why do you mention the fact that you cannot play NES games on an SNES? This is a totally different topic that has nothing to do whatsoever with the current issue.
Yes, that is also possible.
Although you cannot just switch WW chips to convert it to CE since both games use a completely different code base. You can switch CE and HF with each other, though.
And CE and HF run at the same processor speed: 12 MHz. WW runs on a different speed: 10 MHz. It’s not WW and CE that share the same processor speed. It’s CE and HF that share the same processor speed.
You really should get your facts straight.
But that’s not what I was talking about anyway. I was talking about the fact that each ROM board is a unit in itself. You can buy one generic CPS 1 board:
And then you can buy boards for “Final Fight”, “Street Fighter II”, “Strider” etc. and you can plug them together with this CPS-1 board:
You already understood the concept by referring to the CPS-2. You just fail to realize that the whole process of interchangable game boards did not arrive with the CPS-2, but was already the case with the CPS-1.
Then it appears that I understood you as I believed that you were saying that CPS1 boards were compatible with CPS2 boards when you referenced the CPS2 boards and B and C boards. And CPS1 boards as A boards.
And you confirmed what I had read about CPS1 boards being similar to CPS2 boards in being able to play multiple game boards on a single mother board.