Authentic version of Street Fighter II - The World Warrior?


#1

Without resorting to MAME or having the actual physical arcade board, is there a way to play an authentic version of “Street Fighter II - The World Warrior”?

The version in Capcom Classic Collection (PS2) and Street Fighter Collection (PS1) is not 100% authentic. For example, it has a different font and the sound when the score is counted is different.

So, is there any authentic version available?


#2

I can’t imagine you’d ever get a perfect port without one of the first two options. The bugs/software limitations of the original implementation would tend to only be found there.


#3

The answer is no.

Que the Judas Priest music.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/L397TWLwrUU


#4

Yeah, a port, i.e. something written from scratch, wouldn’t be authentic anyway. But I thought that maybe there’s an official and emulated version out there somewhere.


#5

No, and even mame apparently has timing issues if I recall correctly. Leaving just the arcade board for the 100% authentic experience.


#6

IIRC all emulators emulate the CPS2 (and 3) at slightly the wrong clockspeed.


#7

Not incorrect, but he was asking about WW, and that was CPS I. Probably the case for that as well.


#8

So, what is the clock speed of these boards? If there’s really stil an error in MAME these days, it should be possible to fix it by changing the value, right?


#9

Oh fuck, I keep forgetting about that.

No idea why they haven’t fixed this in MAME or FBA or any other emu. But it’s probably because these are multi-arcade board emulators not necessarily about accurately emulating one single family of boards.


#10

But every game has its own speed in MAME. For example, the VS. Unisystem runs at 60 FPS, Pac-Man at 60.xxx and SF2 at 59.xxx.

So, where can I find the definite clock speed of the physical CPS-1, 2 and 3 board?


#11

from an older discussion

In the SF2 games, the EEPROM (power on initialization) test is too fast. This occurs on any emulator that shares a similar CPU core (MAME, Finalburn, Kawaks). However, THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN ON CALLUS. The callus initialization is arcade exact. I have reset the arcade machine many times (mainly, to see which revision I was playing :>), so I am familiar with the speed of the test scrolling. Note: the EEPROM RESET speed is identical in WW, CE, and HF.

even the CPS2 eeprom resets are too fast, but I have only verified this with CPS1 eeprom reset initializations. The CPS2 resets are taken from “memory”, as I have only seen a CPS2 reset from power off a few times. So take that with a grain of salt.

Another thing worth careful noting, is that this EEPROM initialization is closely tied in to the CPU speed of the game, even if the throttling is disabled (SF2:WW, CE). Overclocking the CPU and resetting the game in the emulator makes the EEPROM initialization go even faster. (I have no idea whether this occurs in the arcade machine–how many people have seen an overclocked PCB? :slight_smile:

There is something more that MAMEDEV needs to note here.

Setting the CPU to 65% (which results in arcade perfect speed–remember folks, SF2:HF plays too fast at anything higher than 8 mhz) in SF2: turbo hyper fighting, still does not fix the EEPROM test. Even setting the CPU to 60% (slower than a real machine) has the test run too fast.

Now, before I get flamed for posting something insignificant, WHY DOES CALLUS HAVE THIS SPEED ARCADE PERFECT? And, isn’t the goal of emulation to have everything accurately emulated 100% ?

If something like the eeprom test is wrong, who knows what else can be affected ? What if in fact, the CPS1 SF2 games actually ran at 10 mhz (instead of the 7-8 mhz that is “proper” for accurate play in SF2:HF), but whatever is causing the EEPROM speedup, is also somehow affecting the throttling code, and possibly forcing a SLOWER cpu ?
68k bug? Some unemulated code that needs to be looked into?

Of course, the EASY answer to this would be to ask Sardu, since he got it right. But Sardu isn’t around anymore. In addition, the source for Callus isn’t available. And what CPU core did Callus use ? is it a different one from the one MAME uses? Could that be a factor?

This needs to be investigated, as this little “thing” could solve some much bigger problems. And I think that experienced testers will agree with me (right, Bugfinder? :slight_smile:

I think this should be submitted into the bug reports section, and any feed back is welcome.

IF ANYONE HAS A REAL SF2 PCB, PLEASE CHECK THIS.
And please check it, Vs Callus, and vs MAME set to 65% CPU 0.

-Antos


#12

Funnily enough an older discussion started by the same guy, looking for the same thing. So I guess the answer to his question would be no there is no perfect emulation, probably because there’s not enough demand. Anyone serious enough about SFII to want perfect ports is either playing Hyper Fighting or ST.


#13

Capcom Generations Volume… Volume 5 IIRC. On both Sega Saturn and PlayStation.

It also may have shown up on a compilation disc for PS2 and Xbox, Capcom Classics Collection, of which there are two volumes. However from what I’ve heard these versions have emulation issues and/or input lag.

So yeah Capcom Generations 5 is your only option if you don’t wanna use MAME or a board for World Warrior.

That said, if you want Turbo, I recommend Xbox 360 port.

has online play (though nobody plays :() and it’s based on the Generations port, but it’s not WW. WW is really a curiosity, only 8 selectable characters and some weird bugs, but I totally understand in fact I’d love to whip out WW it’s cool to see where SF2 started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_ZrAXXXg4E

I was right V5. Import only.


#14

@petran79:
Have you discussed this with the MAME guys on their forums?. It sounds pretty interesting. Did you try it out yourself?
And are you sure that it’s still an issue in the current MAME version and not a thing that was tested 10 years ago and is just assumed to be still correct today?

Callus doesn’t run on my computer since it insists on using 16 bit color mode and a screen resolution of 640 x 480.
But even if you don’t have an original board, it should be easy to compare Callus with the current version of MAME to check whether the differences with the bootup screen or the speed in “Hyper Fighting” still exist.

@BurnYourEgo:
Interesting. Before seeing it again, I didn’t remember that I had created such a thread yet.

It’s still not exactly the same. For example, the PlayStation version has the word “Fight” and the word “Battle” farther apart from each other.

Right. The input lag is even proven:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoJzobmdGzU

I don’t understand why they never released a version that has the really authentic games? Including the bootup screen, the version number (e.g. “US 910214”), “Insert coin” etc.


#15

MAME does fix the issue but it seems they have not found a way yet to accurately boot the arcade machine, like Callus. So MAME has to adjust the CPU speed manually instead.
The guys at Bloodlust were geniuses back then. Genecyst, Nesticle and Callus were years ahead and paved the way for modern emulators.


#16

Another question about playing SF2:

If I have the authentic SF2 board (with the ROM chips), is there anything that it can be played on besides an original CPS-1 board?

What I mean is: Analoguous to Super Nintendo clones that can play genuine Super Nintendo cartridges, have they ever created a clone of the CPS-1 board?

After all, the concept is basically the same: The CPS-1 board is the “console”, i.e. the base machine that includes the CPU, but no game code whatsoever. And the SF2 board or any other game board is the “cartridge”.

Therefore, in the same way that console clones don’t break any copyright rules as long as they don’t include any actual games, but rely on genuine cartridges that are played with them, creating a CPS-1 clone without creating a clone of the SF2 board with the ROM chips should be equally legal.

The original CPS-1 board seems to be very fragile. All but one of them that I’ve ever seen had graphics errors. (Like stripes etc.) And some seller told me that he has about 20 boards and all of them have faulty graphics.
So, getting a working SF2 board (the B and C board) is pretty easy, but getting the CPS-1 board (the A board), you have a very high chance that something’s wrong with it.

Does a CPS-1-compatible device exist that can play the original game boards?


#17

you seem to be misunderstanding something.

CPS1 boards are individual game boards. They only play one game. There is no A board or B board or C board.
http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=793

Think of it like the 8 bit NES.

CPS2 comes out with A and B boards. Effectively a game board and a motherboard. It runs completely different games. You can swap out a game board and attach another game board to a motherboard. To play that game instead,
Think of it like the 16 bit SNES. You can’t plug and play a NES game on there can you?
http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=795

Keeping that in mind I have heard something to the effect that you could swap some roms from the different verisons of SF2 on the CPS1 boards effectively converting them from WW to CE or HF. However authentic HF boards run at a different frequency from WW and CE. So the game could play faster or slower than intended depending on which way you went. Though I never tried it so that may all just be BS for all I know.

Now there is something called a CPS1 14 in 1 board that has 14 CPS1 games installed via extra rom chips and extra programming. However from my experience that tends to be a bit glitchy. Well at least the CPS2 version was so I’d assume that the CPS1 would also be glitchy.


#18

What you’re saying is wrong.

CPS-1 boards are generic boards that can play a multitude of games. I know this because I own a bunch of them.

If you don’t believe me, have a look at this:
http://www.capcom-unity.com/totoroslayer/blog/2009/03/09/capcom_arcade_hardware_cps1

Erm, yes, exactly. This pretty much proves my point: The NES is a generic console where you can switch the cartridges. The NES is not a one-game-only-device.

So, why do you think that the NES is a good analogy to your theory that the CPS-1 is an individual game board that only plays one game? The NES is an exact analogy to my description:
NES --> CPS-1 board (i.e. processor, but no ROMs)
Game cartridge --> ROM board

A better analogy of what you believe the CPS-1 to be would be the Game & Watch.
The NES is pretty much exactly what I said about the CPS-1 board.

Everything you say about the CPS-2 is also true for the CPS-1. Both are boards where the games can be switched.

And again your analogy doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
Well, o.k., the comparison between SNES and CPS-2 is sound. But in the context of your previous words, the whole stuff is nonsense:
You compare the NES to a one-game-only device while you compare the SNES to a multiple-games-device?
Erm, no. Just no. NES and SNES are both consoles where you can switch the games.

(Ironically, comparing the NES to the CPS-1 and the SNES to the CPS-2 is still correct because, unlike your statement, the CPS-1 is a multiple-game-device, just like the CPS-2.)

Now your analogy is just all over the place. Because I never ever tried to claim that you can play CPS-1 games on a CPS-2 board, so why do you mention the fact that you cannot play NES games on an SNES? This is a totally different topic that has nothing to do whatsoever with the current issue.

Yes, that is also possible.

Although you cannot just switch WW chips to convert it to CE since both games use a completely different code base. You can switch CE and HF with each other, though.
And CE and HF run at the same processor speed: 12 MHz. WW runs on a different speed: 10 MHz. It’s not WW and CE that share the same processor speed. It’s CE and HF that share the same processor speed.
You really should get your facts straight.

But that’s not what I was talking about anyway. I was talking about the fact that each ROM board is a unit in itself. You can buy one generic CPS 1 board:

And then you can buy boards for “Final Fight”, “Street Fighter II”, “Strider” etc. and you can plug them together with this CPS-1 board:

You already understood the concept by referring to the CPS-2. You just fail to realize that the whole process of interchangable game boards did not arrive with the CPS-2, but was already the case with the CPS-1.


#19

Then it appears that I understood you as I believed that you were saying that CPS1 boards were compatible with CPS2 boards when you referenced the CPS2 boards and B and C boards. And CPS1 boards as A boards.

And you confirmed what I had read about CPS1 boards being similar to CPS2 boards in being able to play multiple game boards on a single mother board.


#20

Erm…What? In my post that came before your answer, I never mentioned CPS-2 boards at all.