Avengers... Assemble! Assist/Team thread!

captain-america

#401

Captain will typically optimize combos best solo during the middle points and your only real way to eek out more damage is assist early on and as enders (cept hawkeye poison arrow…that’s sexy in combos). To crack 850k starting with 0.5 meter you’re gonna need fancy tech like hard tag combos, DHC tech, or the missiles relaunch.

You can use vergil early in the combo, but typically i only use that when i botch a proper corner combo and need it to convert OTG qcf+L to get my relaunch. I do however use two different enders based on opponents health. If I know they’ll die after the hyper w/ vergil extension I will opt for that over missiles, since I get more meter gain before I kill them. Do:

• BnB (corner now)j.S, land, rapid assist, qcf+L, S, qcb+L(must TK this so cancel from S), qcb+H, qcb+ATKATK.

(If you can’t do the TK just do qcb+H, qcb+ATKATK)

So CS H + rapid options:

• midscreen block CS H (far from corner) - after the block, wave dash in and throw a shield slash.
• midscreen block CS H (near corner) - after the block, wave dash in an attempt to attack with a normal or throw a shield slash.
• corner block CS M (near corner) - after the block, attack with a normal or throw a shield slash.

• midscreen hit CS H (far from corner) - after hit, wave dash FAST (3x or 4x!), S, combo… OR CS H again as they fall and go into hyper if too far away. (I need to explore if i can dash a few times and throw a shield slash instead for better consistency)
• midscreen/corner hit CS H (near corner) - after hit, wave dash if needed, s.HS, combo…

I am really trying to get a good video going to show everyone, unfortunately my streamed footage has been riddled with some embarrassing dropped combos and some severe salt over it…so hopefully with luck I’ll have something soon. I will hopefully be working with Team Hitbox to showcase a Captain tutorial that covers much of what I talk about in the combos section OP. I may also request the mod to allow me to create a new team thread with the same treatment I gave the combo thread to create detailed synergy and build ideas for Cap. Right now I feel a lot of people use very solid pairings with Cap, but I’m often finding holes in their strategy with all 3 characters. I’ve had ideas for more optimal teams with Cap and feel he’s much more than j.qcf+L and assist + roll. Despite the simplicity of the character he has unique tools that make him very strong, but you have to respect his flaws in neutral game match ups.


#402

Whats the max damage i can get off of a cr L at start of the round with Cap/Vergil/Doom? I’ve been doing

cr LMHS, sj u+H qcfL, land, S, sj HS, land qcf+L (OTG) dash S, sj MMHS, land qcf+L SUPER. with the doom extension and double HCS I can get pretty close to 1.1mil but not enough to kill chris. I’m trying to kill chris LOL.

Additionally, if you get a stray hit and u mess your combo up near the corner (like something like LMHS, sj MMHS, land Light shield slash + vergil assist), what is the optimum relaunch? just HS, sj MMH dj HS?

Lastly, I"m having trouble with spiral swords follow ups to a HCS. Not sure what the optimum or most consistent loop is. Since this is the captain forum maybe u can PM your go to SS loop?


#403

There are slightly more optimal combos, but for consistency I use:

• c.LMs.HS, sjc.u+H, qcf+L, (land), j.u+H, qcf+M, (land), dash, qcb+L, S, sjc.MHu+HS, (land), j.qcf+L*, Doom Assist, qcb+H, qcb+ATKATK, (missiles hit), s.H, qcb+L, qcb+H, qcb+ATKATK
• (vergil or some other starter with more hitstun used) S, sjc.u+H, qcf+L, (land), j.u+HS, (land), qcf+L, dash, S, sjc.MHu+HS, (land), j.qcf+L*, Doom Assist, qcb+H, qcb+ATKATK, (missiles hit), s.H, qcb+L, qcb+H, qcb+ATKATK

  • This must be the TK versions, grounded will not work. Only do this is you are not fully in corner yet. If so, do normal doom assist first, qcf+L, qcb+ATKATK instead.

So your combo is nearly optimal but had a few slight areas of improvement. c.LMs.H should be a practiced series for a lot of reasons with cap and your ender typically should be sjc.MHu+HS. I do not know the damage off the top of my head. Refer to my combo page for even slightly more optimized combos if it’s still not enough (though it should be).

SS loops after DHC:
• (midscreen) - dash, j.d+H, (land), dash, j.d+H, release ATK, d+H, qcf+L, d+H
• (corner) - j.d+H, (land), s.H, release ATK, qcf+L, qcf+L (must do another loop variant next)
• (corner, final loop) - dp+M, dp+M (ground bounce), d.+H, f+H (wall bounce), release ATK (sideswitch), d+H, qcf+L, d+H, combo…

And the optimal relaunch if you mess up: s.HS, sjc.MMH, djc.Md+HS, if you are too low after the double jump, then sjc.MMH, djc.d+HS is fine.


#404

Cool thanks for the combo optimization. Still isn’t killing Chris at the start of the round but oh well.

Earlier in these threads you mentioned that after a hard knockdown in the corner, u call doom assist and then normal jump over your opponent and throw air L shield slash to start a mixup. You have a video of this? I can’t do this.

Also, im having a lot of issues with the SS loops. on dormammu sizze characters, when i DHC from cap to vergil the j d+H hits incorrectly and they fall out. am i DHCing too late? I also can’t get two qcf+L in my first loop. could just need timing but I’ve been doing j d+H, release RT, walk back qcf+L, spiral swords activate, dp+M, dp+M d+H, f+H, and release RT etc. still dropping it all the time lol.

Lastly, never had a situation where HCS DHC to spiral swords put me midscreen. Most of the cap combos end with the opponent in the corner!

still a freaking beastly team.


#405

I’ll see if i can record some basic tech tonight. I haven’t really had a chance to show off the doom reset. I will state that it is risky in some cases as timing it to be perfectly safe is hard, but usually is will work anyway. And ill test that vergil DHC, because honestly i need to level up my vergil more than my cap.


#406

Taking a break from using Dante for now, current team is Cap/Morridoom. Trying to fit it to my style which is to safely get in rather than chip out but I’m quite liking it so far.


#407

Now we’re playing to win.

I have my reservations about Hidden Missiles as the only/main neutral assist, but still- how’s it working out? Also, has 360gaming happened yet and have you tried the team out offline?


#408

Eh, not sure I agree with a morridoom approach. Think you’re better off with a less assist dependent point like Magneto or Taskmaster. Then can function very well as batteries with just missiles supporting them. Cap on the other hand might be struggling to really accomplish anything and with no assist to really cover holes in his pressure, you risk losing him and putting morrigan in an incoming set up. I just don’t know why Cap over much better options.


#409

So, after reading this I went to the lab to play around. Found that after the CS H RS you can hit with either a single dash s.HxhSS when you hit them close, or if farther away go straight in to the hSS. Then j.u+h, qcf.m, s.HS, j.MHd+HS, ender. I am getting close to breaking 1 mill with this combo, I bet if I could do the CS relaunch I could break it, but I can’t seem to get the timing down on that. I love all the work you’ve put in to Cap and just reading your posts have leveled up my game with him so much. I’m using the CS assist with Cap right now, but read that you can convert a helm breaker in to full combo using SS…HOW!? I’ve been trying, you got a link to the notation or maybe a vid? Oh yea, and I’m running anchor Vergil atm because I have too many bad match-ups with anchor Doom, but you where talking about the DCH into swords and massive pressure using missiles, shields, and the RT glitch. Care to give me some more insight to how to do this? Much respect to you wanting to have the best Cap, I can tell you are well on your way, can’t wait to watch you at EVO.


#410

Thanks, that means a lot.

Good finds on the combo conversion. I don’t know why I haven’t delved deeper into this pick up, but after reading this it also has caused me to think of new ideas.

To convert the OTG it must be early on in the combo. After j.d+H, call cap and pause. You must time df+H a little before the shield connects and it will hit both times. You can opt to not even do trick down after the OTG and just land and do s.H into combo. It takes a little practice, but it’s very good for converting HB into full combos.

The Cap/Doom/Vergil vs Cap/Vergil/Doom is a tough one and I’m still on the fence (I may simply make them 2 teams for counter picks)
**
C/D/V**
Pros:
• Doom’s qcb+ATK+ATK DHC in corner after Caps qcb+ATK+ATK is VERY VERY strong and gives a reset opportunity if you somehow don’t kill
• Doom has air dash to help fight incoming set ups
• Vergil is the strongest anchor
• Vergil will likely have ample meter by the time he gets out
• Doom zoning is very strong with rapidslash assist
• Doom dp+ATK+ATK, Vergil qcb+ATK+ATK, qcb+H, j.S leads to a full combo
• Doom’s lvl 1s into any of Vergil’s level 1’s results in a free full screen mix up scenario depending on distance and teleport used.
• Doom is very good at keep away to allow Cap to heal when tagged out
• Cap SS is a decent assist for mix ups pressure stings with Doom

Cons:
• Cap > Doom is very limited on mid screen DHCs
• Calling missiles often risks exposing your 2nd too punishment and losing that red life if Cap dies

C/V/D
Pros:
• Cap > Vergil DHCs work anywhere and will always kill if you have the meter
• Vergil with missiles is VERY frustrating to deal with and can allow vergil to do long pressure strings off pokes to gain meter and chip
• Vergil + Cap SS can create very dirty safe mix ups
• Cap SS will convert Vergil’s OTG into a full combo
• Block Cap DHC > Vergil dp+ATK+ATK leads to a free pressure string
• Vergil can easily hard tag in any character with a blocked RT
• Vergil can throw out random qcf+ATK+ATK in hopes for a random cross up and then safely DHC to Doom if blocked
• Tagging to Vergil handles Cap’s bad match ups

Cons:
• Doom is a match up/scenario specific when being considered an effective anchor.

It’s balanced team versus front loaded team. Cap/Vergil and Vergil/Doom are easily superior to Cap/Doom and Doom/Vergil in terms of synergy, but you are at risk of a bad early game blow up sealing your fate with an unassist XF3 Doom to try to win it out. Experiment with both. They are both valid teams and you may find you want to alternate. I wish there was a way to hold assist buttons to swap 2nd and 3rd during load.


#411

I play Cap as if he was solo. I personally think he doesn’t really need assists for neutral (heck, my first Ultimate team was Cap/slant grapple/hidden missiles). Missiles is more than enough for me to open them up as I pretty much never use Backflip unless missiles are coming down or I want to make use of its invincibility.

Charging Star assist for Morrigan is very useful as it is a GTFO assist in many situations, sets up Soul Drain easily in the corner and is good as a meaty if I do HCS dhc Astral Vision, back dash+call Cap Assist. DHC options aren’t amazing tbh but the hard knockdown of HCS does set up Astral vision really nicely. If only Finishing Shower could otg…

Currently using Dark Harmonizer Morrigan assist for the extra meter build but I may change it Shadow Blade to explore it’s options there.

Next 360gaming is in April but I’ll be revising for exams which are in June. Come July, I’ll properly be back in Marvel action to prep up for i49 and Lockdown (Portuguese tournament). For now I’m just messing about with different chars trying to come up with some crazy teams (like Joe/Raccoon/Ammy aka Team Try Doing Your BNBs Against).


#412

Thanks for all the info. I had these ideas floating around but you really put them in to hard terms. I will play around with team order and see what I like. All I know is that Vergil is WAY better than Sent on my Cap/Doom team.


#413

Have you guys just not seen any vids I’ve been posting since 2011 or…?


#414

That rapid slash confirm is much better feeling. Tested it last night, but havent gone into the lab with it yet.

Also playing Cap, I’m starting to realize how good his s.L is for antiair. I’ve been calling missiles and dashing under people on incoming and just mashing it. It’s sadly effective.


#415

Man, that makes me giddy that you like that. Put that shit in the lab and break a million damage for me and I’ll feel better about it. I think you have enough hit stun to do the CS relaunch, but like I said, I suck at that combo.

Had casuals last night and was trying to get that combo off, the CS RS one, and couldn’t get the second j.u+H to hit. I need to work on the spacing to make it more reliable in match. Let me know if you find anything else, being able to combo off of CS makes Cap so much better. Glad we have a way to do it without using Iron Man.


#416

Kinda new here…links to said vids?


#417

It’s just a start as converting a combo with missiles in play means you need to start small and then figure out your options so that missiles won’t ruin your combo. Anyway with my team getting the mil isn’t hard. 2 meter and I get 700+k with cap into multiple vergil loops.

Also there’s a few assists that can combo CS, just a few can do CS H (IM beam will not cover CS H if blocked, you will get punished), but a lot can do CS M (RR log!!!)


#418

I’ve decided on two main Captain America teams. The first is Captain America (Charging Star)/Doctor Doom (Plasma Beam)/Strider Hiryu (Vajra). Main reason for this team is that Cap has the utility he gains of Plasma beam for charging star coverage, and plasma beam can also be used to counter act assists from full screen. Vajra is also the best anti-air assist in the game, and Captain America can convert off it if it causes a hard knockdown. Vajra can also be used to extend Captain America’s combos.

There is also synergy between Doctor Doom and Strider, with Vajra being one of the best assists for Doom with Amaterasu’s Cold Star. Meter building from successful TAC attempts i.e. with the a.k.a Doom ‘swag’ combos and from his simplistic infinites can grant Strider multiple Ouroborus usage if you so desire.

The second team I’m working on is Captain America (Charging Star)/Magneto (Disruptor)/Shuma Gorath (Mystic Ray, though I don’t think I need to say which Shuma Gorath assist I would be using). I purchased Shuma Gorath not to long before posting this, and he is heavily execution-based [1], so is my kind of character. I discovered Captain America and Magneto DHC synergy in the corner which I posted in the tech thread (old thread, delete). I am figuring out how to perform Magneto’s other infinites (Up, Sideways and midscreen) and I will have to adjust my Cap play as I don’t have the charging star utility that I am used to with Plasma beam. However Mystic Ray compensates for this as it OTGs (off-the-grounds), reaches full screen, virtually covers the whole of the screen has a moderate start up and clears other projectiles i.e gets rid of Hidden Missiles.

Shuma Gorath seems to be the only assist that gives support for Captain America and Magneto as well as adequate anti-air utility (NB. I do not rate Doctor Doom as an anchor, nor do I think HIdden Missiles is as effective as an anti-air assist as Vajra or Mystic Ray is, as competent players quite frankly do not care for hidden missiles as the are now able to evade hidden missiles through plink dashing and other technology which has been discovered, and as I’ve previously stated I do not rate Hidden Missiles overall as an assist for Captain America outside of the relaunch/double hyper charging stars ‘tech’, as Captain America can not make hidden missiles calls at neutral anywhere near as threatening as the likes of Magneto, or even to the lesser extent Taskmaster can). I will be working on my Shuma Gorath and hopefully there will be a realistic use for the team.

I have also developed on Frank West levelling up tech using raw tags of Captain America’s Hard shield slash, which would get him to either level 4 or 5, with either Doctor Doom or Dante. I will upload the videos of the techniques once a friend is free.

1= I intend to use his extended combos.


#419

That 1st is a really solid team. If it weren’t for meter sharing concerns between vergil/strider I wouldn’t mind using Strider.


#420

It’s just funny to see people trying to casually list my January 2012 tech as new when it’s well documented. Oh we’ll I wonder when they’ll figure out the good stuff