Avengers... Assemble! Assist/Team thread!

captain-america

#521

So after lots of testing this week I’m also humoring the idea of dynamic team orders rather than make teams to front load Cap and hope they play as strong when thing’s fall apart. Cap has MU issues and covering them all is tough so I’m embracing a lot of counter pick teams and now teams with characters you can start on point for better match ups. So rather than forcing Cap to defeat all his match ups with assists, you use another team order to adapt to the situation better. Currently I’m trying this:

Vergil(rs)/Cap(ss)/Task(h arrow)

So here you have 3 valid teams based on if you hold :a1:/:a2:/nothing at start of round. It’s intended to run Cap point, but uses a team offset so that if you reorder Cap will never be placed on anchor: V/C/T - C/V/T - T/C/V. The team has fair amounts of synergy, but not as front loaded as some teams as we have 3 horizontal assists with some cross over, but still some unique use between one over the other. Over all the idea is to be adaptive, rather than weighted. You have 2 solid anchors and 2 solid points.

You’ll want Cap on point usually to take advantage of his ground rush down game and try to get vergil set up ASAP to hopefully take it all. If you have a better MU on point for Cap (zero, anyone with superior air options, full screen zoners that can keep him out), start with Task on point and then have Vergil as your strong anchor. You’ll probably not start Vergil on point, but if you are facing a front loaded team, it can be smart to start him off strong by blowing meter and xfactor early to establish dominance at the very start and hopefully unravel the team before it can start (EX: incoming/TOD point characters that use an assist based anchor like doom or sent over a solid anchor on point). After the threat is gone you can win with an honest game.

It might be a good idea to consider a dynamic order team for whoever you’re playing. Cap is very hard to accommodate for every MU, leaving you often with too much frontload at the expense of the team after or leaving cap vulnerable to bad MU’s and playing banking on the other 2 characters after the fact. And yes…it is legal in tournament to switch order EVEN IF YOU WON.

Also…found out Wesker’s Jaguar kick makes CS H safe and comboable. Not a huge find but that now makes 4 assists that make CS H safe on block.


#522

I’m probably gonna switch back from Cap/Mag/Akuma (tatsu) to Cap/Mag/Doom (plasma beam). Will fare better at distance. I’m still playing around with raw tag combos but it seems they’d net the same damage as I would from a Cap bnb->magnetic shockwave dhc.


#523

Don’t like Cap/Doom/Mags or even Missiles assist?


#524

Yeah I’d prefer that too… easy 1mil + Cap BnBs, TAC infinites (mags got em too but i think they’re harder?), Mag is a way better anchor, you already have a beam and they’re about equal in how easily they confirm (but doom covers CS M), missiles gives you air control and safety, mags w/ missiles is awesome, etc…

I would also reitterate my love for team reorders and do:

Doom(missiles)/Cap(SS)/Mag(beam) =

Team 1 - :a1:, Cap/Doom/Mag = default team
Team 2 - :a2:, Mag/Cap/Doom - counter pick


#525

Prefer Captain America/Magneto/Doctor Doom, as Plasma Beam provides an assist both Magneto and Cap can use at neutral. Although Magneto’s a decent anchor (better than Doom is), Disruptor doesn’t offer the other two much other than instances where its fast start-up is useful [1]. While Missiles are really good for Magneto, Captain America can’t effectively use it at neutral. At best, they’re just good for TOD combos [2].

Biggest concerns are match-ups and damage. The teams order only nets about 870k off dhcs and raw tag combos. For damage, best option will be to x-factor to guarantee kill, or risk a TAC being broken to kill off TAC combo[3]. Point Magneto may fare better against in some instances.

You seem to have to choose between your neutral game or damage when making a team for Cap. However, the dynamic team ordering is a seemingly effective alternate solution.

Spoiler

1= Disruptors greatest benefit is with the cartwheel mix-up. It doesn’t offer much at neutral other than with a well-timed call. It can be used by Cap to convert of throws, but the timing is strict, and only possible to do so mid-screen. Plasma Beam can do so with greater ease, as well as in the corner. But it does much greater scaling.

Spoiler

2= Cap can’t cover hidden missiles well. He can’t protect them outside of the range of his attacks, and it’s also a risk to attempt to call them close to characters with good buttons/superior attacks. People are also effectively dealing with missiles now, making it harder for him to make use of them. However, if I were to have an alternative team, it would be Cap/Missiles/Tatsu.

Spoiler

3= I’m fine with both characters infinites. My biggest issue/annoyance is leaving a character alive, or giving them a chance to survive. I am working on optimising raw tag combos with the team


#526

Well some other ideas to think about:

[list]
[*]Hard tag combos w/ Cap > doom. c.:l::m::h:, qcf+:h:~(:a1:), ,c.:l::h::s:, sjc.:l::l::m:(2) f+:h:,:s: xx ADDF (land), sjc.:m:(2) :m:(2) f+:h::s: xx ADDF (land), s.:h:(2), dpf+:l:, qcb+:atk::atk: (the proper ender when not doing fully optimized doom combos, none of that j.qcf+:h:, qcb+:atk::atk: crap dooms do!!! Time it so the body is about chest/head height or it’s not worth it). This is also better with the C/D/M team too since it avoids Cap anchor on the tag and Cap will be the next DHC for way more damage than Mag.

[*]Cap can defend missiles pretty well. If they jump, CS underneath to side switch. On ground you should only call from CS and hyper CS range as a threat incase they attempt to punish doom. Only a few characters can really shut missiles down without cap being able to defend them (wesker!). Missiles are also great to call whenever you have frame advantage. You can even call by super jump > double jump immediate and threaten with d+:h: if they try to engage him. I’ve had a LOT of success with missiles in Cap’s neutral game. At full screen you have Mag beam to get in and once in missiles are good. ALWAYS have meter, you can pretty much use a hyper CS to pin them 3/4ths screen and make them block the missiles after while you keep attacking.

[*]If you do Doom beam, do Mag hyper grab. It’s better to cover more options than have over lap assists unless you’re lookin to abuse the cool downs of alternating assists. Hyper gave gives dirty incomings, resets, and interesting extensions, however it’s not great for most of Cap’s neutral as Cap has a hard time getting back to the opponent to combo them beyond CS > hyper CS. Food for thought

[*]Cap > Doom DHC is much stronger than Cap / Mag. Learn finger lasers in corner at the correct height and it’s devastating.

[*]In combo enders with Cap/Mag, try to roll into the corner and THC for max hyper damage (mag’s hyper should OTG). You’ll be facing midscreen now so everyone of Mag’s hyper should hit. I’m not sure which attacks you can cancel into THC to see If you can do more extensions, but try this instead of doing a DHC.

[*]Be very careful with Cap teams where your primary assist is anchor. A common strategy is to simply snap Cap to anchor and kill the assist. Doom has terribad match ups against Dorm, Strange, Hawkeye, and a few others. Thankfully your team has Mags as a well rounded 3rd, but keep note of this as Cap is a terrible anchor if Mags dies on incoming.

[*]Midscreen, hyper CS > upshot > shockwave connects. You must do this with the body higher up on Cap before hyper CS and cancel slightly early for upshot to connect.

[*]Doom > Mag plays very well if you keep Mag beam. Beam helps doom get in on ground which helps a lot. It also is fast enough to call on reaction while spamming missiles.
[/list]

Do what feels comfortable though, I don’t have much experience with Mag so you may know best. I just have a major dislike for doom/sent/strange type anchors given how bad things can turn. At EVO I lost with Cap/Vergil/Doom, because the opponent snapped doom with Hawkeye and raped him while Cap got stuck anchor. While I think UMvC3 is more of a frontload game due to the snowball wins off 1 hit, it’s nice to have diversity when things go awry.


#527

Nah this isn’t true. Hypergrav will pull the opponent back to your point anywhere on the screen. As long as you’re ready to convert off of it, you can. Of course, Cap isn’t Wolverine and can’t give you an easy convert with a ground bounce anywhere on the screen, but it’s not impossible to convert off of a hypergrav 90% of the time. The biggest issue I have with hypergrav assist is someone like Doom can footdive, get hit by hypergrav, be put in a capture state, get knocked down, get back up, and OTG before Cap can recover.


#528

How does a team of Cap/Skrull/Sentinel or Cap/Sentinel/Skrull sound?

I know that Sentinel can work great for both Skrull and Cap but I’m not sure on the best order or how well Skrull works with Cap and vice versa.

I’m terrible at Marvel but this seems like it could be a pretty good team.


#529

Decent team.

Though I would keep Skrull anchor and swap out Sentinel for a better neutral assist (Iron Man/Unibeam, Doom/Plasma Beam).


#530

Well I had a long set recently and found Akuma to be a much stronger (and easier, at least for me) anchor. I thought Sentinel was pretty good for Cap…or have I been watching too much Condor Missile? :slight_smile:

I’ll give those two a try and see how it goes thanks.


#531

Sent is great for Captain, but you really need a good beam/horizontal assist with him as well IMO. Otherwise, way too easy to snipe Sent. That being said, I don’t follow that particular advice haha.


#532

Cap/Doom(beam)/Sent is a good choice. I prefer it to IM any day. you won’t convert every charging star, but you can convert some of them in corner and Doom offers a safe DHC, great corner DHC (do finger lasers in corner hurts sooo much and offers an air grab reset), TAC infinites, and Doom’s beam is much harder to punish and see coming. Both beams only protect qcb+:m:, not :h:.

Cap/Sent/X is also valid since some people would rather give Sent an assist to help him rather than depend on X-factor. Sent has good raw THC potential with Cap, escapes incoming set ups, DHCs very well, has TAC infinites, etc…


#533

I’m making a new team of cap (1st, CS), Chris (2nd, machine gun), RR (pendulum). Assist seem to work well for all three characters. Still working on my bnb’s. Any suggestions or opinions? Trying to break away from zero May cry


#534

Your only extensions should be relaunches in corner (EX: j.:s: (land), :a1:/:a2:, qcf+:l: (OTG), (a normal if needed), :s:, etc…) or his common corner ender (j.:s: (land), :a1:/:a2:, qcf+:l:, qcb+:l:, qcb+:h:, qcb+:atk::atk:). You may need to dash back wards before the OTG and make slight pauses (RR log, I always call, back dash, then throw the qcf+:l: since you need a slight pause). You could also experiment with his midscreen extension (j:s: (land), j.qcf+:l:, dash forward, THC).


#535

Thanks!


#536

I been trying to come with team involving Cap so far I have Task(up arrows),Cap(CS)and Arthur(daggers)or would Cap first be a better position? Also could task(up arrows assist) help Cap on his incoming mixups?


#537

I would do Arthur (dagger)/Cap (cs or ss, I like ss)/Task (h arrow), with the intention of holding :a1: or :a2: at the start of the match. I preach this strategy a LOT and it’s very helpful to Cap who may not be your best point and Task who tends to fix his bad matchups.

[list]
[*]Cap/Arthur/Task = main team. Task gives you a safe CS :h: and is your most well rounded anchor even if he doesn’t have the same X-factor dominance as Arthur. Arthur gives Cap a great neutral for added pressure and mixups and most importantly: a safe DHC!

[*]Task/Cap/Arthur = alt team against Cap’s bad MUs (characters that can run away from Cap and win from the air.
[/list]

Cap’s incoming are not as terrible as I once thought. I haven’t added them all to the guide but I may as well list mine here:
[list]
[]dash, delayed raw :s: - cross up. not safe, but it will stuff a ton of attacks and is hard to determine for opponent. confirm with a neutral super jump conversion.
[
]double dash, delayed raw :s: - non-cross up. Just returns you to the same side.
[]dash, delayed s.:h: incorner - Near ambiguous as he pushes out of the corner as he does this, so your timing determines which side the opponent lands on the hitbox. Beware as this is easy to stuff and your opponent can use an aerial options to run.
[
]Corpse roll midscreen - On kill, position yourself at about 1/2 screen distance of the body. Then either roll or kara roll (s.:h:~:atk:+:s:) onto the body and jump opposite the side you appear onto and throw a qcf+:m:. This can be very very hard to react to and will likely work the first few times you do it on a new player. Aim to cross up on the roll the first attempt then learn to aim for the side you want while making it hard to read. Cap should face the wrong way of incoming when he jumps to throw the opponent off.
[]Corpse roll corner - roll onto the body, jump out of the corner then double jump back into the corner and option select a variant of j.:h:/throw. Confirm with (land). s.:l::m::h::s:, neutral super jump conversion.
[
]Trapping shield layer - If you have time, try to throw a j.qcf+:atk: as they come in with the intention of whiffing the 1st hit and having the 2nd hit right on them slightly after they enter. You can add in any mix up you can as they fall and shield will cover you and prevent them from airdashing/doublejumping/etc away. The goal is to get them to block it, then mix up in the very brief moment they escape blockstun to let you cross up. Try to use mix ups that can easily adjust if they get hit by the shield instead.
[]Whiff Shield and cross up roll - do an early j.qcf+:atk: and do a roll as soon as your opponent is able to attack you. Your goal is to be directly underneath them and slightly too forward so they cross you up on incoming as you land. When you roll, the shield will be coming back and hit them as you recross up with the roll. You want to roll while they’re almost on the ground so they can’t throw you, but also so they clearly see they’ll land on the opposite side of you and hopefully not see the recross coming. Since you roll you’ll be safe from most attacks. if they try to stuff this.
[
]Meaty s.:h:, assist+roll - A big strategy of mine is using the kara roll in assist mix ups because it fluctuates the range and they opponent doesn’t know if you’ll cancel before the active frames of s.:h: or roll early and cross up with the assist. You wanna do this at the tip of the legs to minimize what can beat you out.
[*]early jump in corner, neutral/forward jump, d+:h: - Jump into the corner to early so you won’t appear to cross them, then double jump over them as they enter and stuff them with an ambiguous d+:h:
[/list]


#538

Rocks yo! Got bored and found some stuff with rocks. Easy double charging star in corner. On block c.L s.M s.H+A2(Rocks) S+Atk is one nasty cross up that only throws snaps and hard tags can get out of. Nice screen coverage and a great defensive tool. Too bad it doesn’t help with Cap’s #1 problem.


#539

Does anyone use a Cap/Haggar team?

Nice. Would seem unibeam would be the optimal 3rd assist for the team.


#540

Hitbox Buttons does…but I constantly demoan the fact he shouldn’t be using cap for his team. Hagger/Cap/Sent. It’s great…until you get a top level Hawkeye, dorm, magneto, or zero…