Avoid Trading Hits: Attack Strength Dependent?


#1

This thread is about why exactly trades happen, if it’s possible to avoid trading, and if strength of an attack comes into play.

I have a hunch that trading happens when both players use attacks with equal priority at the same time, but I’m sure I’ve traded with greater/weaker attacks as well.

What sparked my curiosity mostly, is jumping light attacks. I’ve recently started to incorporate them into my strategy, but they don’t seem very applicable to every match. I feel if the j.LA (light attack) is more of an air-to-air angle, it’s meant to be used that way, but does that mean it has more priority than a stronger jump attack? And does it mean an angled down j.LA should be used as an air-ground attack exclusively? I’m really curious what the benefit of using that instead of a stronger air-ground attack would be; aside from maybe a difference of your jump-in distance along with start up and active frames.

Thus I prompt the question among questions: When and why do you use jumping light attacks?

If y’all are curious, I play Rose, and use j.lk (air-ground) more for shenanigans and killing blows than avoiding a trade hit (since I don’t know how to consciously avoid trading hits) while using j.lp (air-air) mostly by accident, though sometimes as a last second jump-in attack for block stun or to take off that last sliver of health.

So that’s all I have to say on the matter. Thanks in advance for filling the blanks.


#2

trades happen due to the interaction between hitboxes, if both players have active attack frames touching inside the opponents hit box then both players get hit. has nothing to do with “priority” which is just a word to encompass a bunch of different concepts like invincibility frames, hit-boxes, start-up frames etc.

man i wish i knew the link but a while ago someone posted some pretty spot on explanatory pics of the hitboxes for a few attacks, and it showed that some attacks extend your hit-able hitbox while others simple put a offensive hitbox out in front of your hit box at a certain angle.


#3

Just play HD Remix and turn on the hitboxes in training mode and you’ll have it figured out.


#4

its not strengt dependent because i trade with dragon punch while using light. its all about hit boxes, active frames, and invicibility frames it present. like the guy 2 post ctiabove said some moves increase your hit box while making it smaller at the same time. Look at Lariat its a good move (if used correctly) because it makes Zangief all one active hit box and controls the space around him. All while making Zangiefs hit box smaller and more limited.


#5

Yes yes, do this.

Red rectangles are the give-a-hit areas, blue rectangles are the take-a-hit areas.


#6

Yeah, HDR will help you understand the concept of priority. Does anyone else wish SF4 had the same feature?


#7

Absolutely. I sometimes start up HDR just to see their hitboxes to try and get an idea of SF4’s might be like.


#8

Ok but what about cr jabs taking priority over a horizontal blanka ball or say a boxer dash punch, is it simply because those normals are active quicker , with the least recovery so more chance of connecting?


#9

no dude its because of what everyone has said already in this thread:

its hitbox versus hitbox, speed versus speed, range versus range.

and yeah sf4 should have shown hitboxes :mad:

but if you set up record you can kind of get a feel by having your main wiff like a bunch of whatever normals and then test the characters standing/crouching animations versus there “move is out” hitboxes ie chuns standing roundhouse extends her low “hittable” hitbox half a character length even though it actually looks from the sprite that her low hitbox gets smaller.

-dime


#10

Ah ok, so the hitbox of cr jabs are small so that combined with a low recovery, high proportion of active frames, all factors into why they’d beat out those specials i mentioned more regularly than heavier normals. Got it, cheers.


#11

in this example blanka’s active hitbox for both his attack and taking damage covers the same space, yet cr. jabs hitbox extends out in front of the characters active hitable box. so what happens is the cr jab hits out in front of the char protecting his hitbox towards the front.


#12

A couple weeks ago, I had a dragon punch stuffed by Ken’s light punch…pretty stupid…but perhaps it was just some random lag or a blooper IDK because it hasnt happend since…


#13

Ah ok, do cr jabs extend the hitbox at all for a crouching animation do you know? Maybe slightly? I know this is all is char dependent, so say for cr jabs of ryu.


#14

Haha I don’t have HDR and won’t ever get it. I just hate how it looks. I’m more of a Super Turbo guy.

Anyway, thanks for the input everybody. I guess I should’ve said something about how I know what hitboxes are, and the jist of certain moves extending/reducing hitboxes (like Honda’s nj.HP).

I still don’t see a benefit to certain weak (as in light) air normals over stronger normals though I feel there should be some application.

And is it fair to conclude that there’s no guaranteed method for avoiding trades? Except to watch where you’re swinging?


#15

The thread I made with the hitboxes is here;

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=189945

The way I understand it, trades can happen for 2 reasons. Firstly if both players active (red) hitboxes appear at the same time and each hits the opponents hittable (blue) box.

Secondly if the hitboxes are already active but moving along the screen and boxes collide. This one is quite interesting because if for example you take a DP hitbox moving upwards to the underside of the opponent jump kicking, you’d imagine the active red box of the DP would hit the blue box of the jumping player first

The reason this can trade is because the game isn’t evaluating if the boxes are colliding after each pixel of movement. If the game is evaluating collision detection of the hitboxes once every 16ms; even though the DP hitbox would hit the jumping players boxes first, by the time it comes round to checking them, both player’s hitboxes are deep enough overlapping that both are hitting each other and a trade happens.


#16

So use the classic graphics in all its pixelated glory. You’re not forced to use the new HDR look.


#17

Maybe he plays Chun in ST.