B+MP never trades



I found a weird property with command normals where the first active frame never trades. For example whenever you are +1 after a blocked cr.mp, going into Ken’s b+mp (4 frame startup) would leave a 3 frame gap. Here is where it gets interesting…

As you are aware, 3 frame gaps theoretically trade with 3 frame jabs. If Ken tries to do cr.mp into b+mp, it should always trade with a 3frame jab but it does not. If you replace the b+mp with any other 4 frame move you will trade will the opponent. Whats going on?

if you are +0 on block and try to do the b+mp, you will be counterhit by the opponents 3 frame jab. If you are +2 on block and do b+mp, you will counter hit the 3 frame jab. So why doesnt +1 trade? Ive reviewed the hitboxes and it doesnt look like Kens hurtbox disappears anywhere during the animation to indicate invincibility, nor does his hurtbox warp in any way to “avoid” moves with strange hitboxes configurations. It looks pretty normal to me.

This seems to be the case with ANY command normal. I managed to reproduce the same effects with everyone else who has a command normal and if you manage to line up the frames to make it trade, the command normal always wins.

*Edit: Maybe Ken’s b+mp got ninja buffed to 3 frames? Just tested it and its still 4 frames and doesnt combo after +3 lights. It also doesnt explain why it never trades


interesting, gonna hit the training room a bit to test this out, but good find.


Medium normals have priority over light normals. If they go active on the same frame the medium wins.

If you were to try the same thing against say Ken’s LK Tatsu, you’ll find b.MP does trade. Which is why I love that 3 frame tatsu. In a 0 on block situation the Tatsu wins over just about everything outside of DPs. :slight_smile:


Well shit, I must of missed the memo. This explains why cr.lp, cr.hp was so effective against my friend’s nash whenever he was on tilt. Unless they have a 3 frame jab, they cant mash out of that blockstring.

Doesnt this give us more reason hitconfirm his target combo with cr.mp, b+mp? I mean st.lp, b+mp is more consistent if you can hitconfirm fast enough but cr.mp does more damage and its easier to confirm off… If only it didnt randomly cause weird pushback making the b+mp followup miss sometimes.

Personally, the only reason I started doing st.lp, b+mp is because I didnt want to leave a 3 frame gap and opponents to mash jabs. Now that I can do it off +1, this changes things