Back Throw + J.MP question

gouken

#1

So I see in videos that following Gouken’s back throw you can hit someone with j.MP and then juggle them from there. Now I have tried this in training and its only worked about once I know that his HK tatsu misses no matter what but when I attempt to follow up with a tatsu or another normal or even ultra they go right through. Is there a certain way to execute this combo?


#2

Gouken’s juggle isn’t that great compared to Ryu or Seth’s j.strong. You have to hit the opponent with only the second hit of the j. strong and from there you can do a s.fierce/c.fierce for the reset or a forward Tatsu/EX Tatsu/Ultra for the damage. If you do the forward tatsu though, make sure you get the second hit of the juggle almost at the peak or else it will whiff and that is extremely bad for Gouken.


#3

The j.Strong only hits once but I’m assuming that when I do it its the first hit that connects is it a timing issue?


#4

Yeah, it’s most likely a timing issue. Gouken’s j.strong is two hits, similar to Ryu or Seth, but he can’t juggle both of the hits. Make sure to only get the second hit of the j.strong in. So after you do the back throw, wait a slight moment and then jump up for the j.strong.


#5

Ahh ok I usually mash out the j.Strong in an attempt to not let both hits connect.


#6

Using j.mp > Ultra is only for flash, it doesn’t net you more damage, it actually nets you less. Keep in mind that Ultra count’s as 2 hits. So your first hit will be the 2nd hit of j. mp (30 damage @ 100%), and since Ultra counts as 2 it will register at 80% starting from the first hit (the values vary depending on how much Ultra meter you have but any any case it’s waaaay more than 30 damage).

The j.mp XX EX Tatsu is good stuff and the mix up option is good if you are able to quickly transition to DF after the cr. FP. (j.mp 2nd hit xx cr. FP = 150 damage) If you have trouble keeping the pressure with transitioning to DF then try this option… j. mp xx cr. hk (150 damage). This give you the same options and damage as the reset, but with the hard knock down and you still can follow up with meaties and vortex options. It doesn’t happen as quick as the transition from cr. fp > DF, but b/c of the hard knock down you can safe jump, DF meaty and cross up with hk DF, meaty FB for chip, FA Bait, frame trap, tick throw, walk/dash up and throw, or you can back dash and start your zoning game from here… etc. etc.


#7

It’s the first hit you need, not the second.

There’s a good article in the main forum about the juggle system that lists why it all works.


#8

ok the first hit is 50 damage… the j. mp > Ultra still scales your Ultra to 80% and it isn’t worth the trouble IMO.


#9

Don’t do that then. You’d only do the j.strong from backthrow for confusion when starting a reset. It has no other purpose within a combo.


#10

Right…

there are the times that you j. mp during the heat of the battle and you get it from AA, I’ve used it then but those times are few and far between.


#11

It’s a great jumpaway defense, and excellent in the Fuerte match. Even if you trade with Tostada in that match while getting away from his mixup, he gets knocked down and you’re back at evens again.

It has it’s uses in corner traps as well, similar to how Ryu uses his.

Back on topic though, it only really has a use in a combo if you’re confident that you can land the one-hit version consistently and from all the juggle setups. Otherwise, just keep it simple.


#12

By second hit, I mean the part where he hits with the elbow and not the fist, which I would consider to be the first hit. The extra 50 damage is worth it and it doesn’t scale if you were going to do the reset anyways. And I don’t think it’s that hard to execute once you get the timing down.


#13

That’s what makes the game beautiful, we all have different philosphies and certin stuff we like to do even though it’s with the same character. I’ve faced a few meeean Goukens and they’ve all played him a little differently. Some relying heavily on his vortex game, some better with his offensive punishing game, others better with his zoning game, and a few that’s good with all that shit. The ones that are good at everything have been the hardest to beat b/c they use one portion of his game to set up the next.

If you feel as if it is worth it and can work it into your game, then go for it… although the reset game should be used very wisely since it is unsafe, but again if you are fighting an opponent who is weak defensively or who is overly agressive Goukens mix up game is very hard for them to deal with. The patient ones… I punish them when I can.


#14

I believe that without Ultra, Gouken’s highest damage off the backthrow is backthrow -> j.mp -> EX Tatsu.

As for the timing, I hold diagonal up towards the airborne opponent, and hit MP late - you want to time it so that you hit them with your elbow.


#15

Yeah that shit is pretty ridiculous. You will some times get the opportunity to pull of during a normal jump in and you happen to catch them with the first only hit. I’ve also been able to jump mp for the 2 full hits and follow up with again with j. mp for 3 hits… I does a litle over 100 damage but it looks pretty cool.


#16

Another mix up option after back throw I like is to just take a step forward falling opponent than standing fierce into demon flip pretty much same results without worrying about timing and juggle states


#17

Yeah that works too… it really depends on where you want your opponent to land regarding which method you select and what you would like your follow up to be. It’s some very tricky shit you can do with Gouken and it doesn’t have to be all that complicated.


#18

On a side not what can you follow up with if j.MP connects twice?


#19

Against Rufus, if you do j.MP, then s.HP into DF, I find he can always EX snake strike you for massive damage. However, if you instead just walk forward after backthrow, and do s.HP into roundhouse DF (no j.mp), you can cross his vertical center and fuck up his motion for snake strike, and STILL come down and smack him with divekick. It’s not foolproof (hooray auto-correction) but it’s better than eating EX snake strike for free.

Any move that has juggle potential. Super, Ultra, or hurricane kick. Ultra will be the multi-hit lower damage version, and super is a waste of meter for the most part, but if it’s the end of the match and you’ll win because of it, go for it! The hurricane kick has to really really early, so you whiff the first hit, and connect with the hits while he’s spinning up into the air. It’s really difficult, and risky, but it’s possible.


#20

You don’t have a tips, advice or timing for the Jump MP after the back throw. Sometimes i’ve the two hit but i don’t know how to constantly do it.