Bad Habits when using Gouken?

gouken

#1

I saw a thread like this on the Balrog subforum and I thought many of us can use one here.

For me when I tend to start doing the same moves over and over similar to what Sirlin describes in his Playing to win article
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/the-obsessed.html :

  1. Focus attacks a lot. I think this is because when you face many characters that jump in, FA can be just as reliable as crouching fierce, this is a good way to make sure you can get a solid combo out. But it becomes bad when you face a Chun with the two hit fierce or a Bison who headstomps or scissors or anything.
  2. Demonflip divekicks. Tend to do this most of the time and demon throws rarely and airfocus never. Needs more mixup.
  3. Demonflip divekick poke poke poke tick kara throw. This is what many Ryus and Guiles and Chun Li’s would like to do and it can work with Gouken, but I myself need to use the reset more.
  4. Counters on seeing an opponent crossing up on your wakeup only to get empty jump throw. Counter less, block and tech more.
  5. Anything with backthrow. I’ve seen many players start thinking about this a lot more and even using it a lot more when they’re lower on health. It can be really bad gameplay if you throw it a lot or walkup throw without any setups and good players will tech or punish you hard for thinking about/using it.

Anyone else have bad habits with Gouken? Have you tried to fix your gameplay?


#2
  • Waking up with EX Demon Flip, haven’t work for me in the past matches.
  • Start a match with Weak Dash Palm.

Hmm… those are the 2 I can come up for now.


#3

I know a handful of friends who are really good players and occasionally what they like to do to me is perform: “Jump-in attack --> cr.LP / cr.LK --> Walk-up throw”. I’ve since developed a reflex to tech these whenever my friends try it.

Problem is, when I face other players online, they would attack me with the same jump-in tactic, only instead of walk-up throw, they’d continue to mash jab, or try to finish with a sweep. Because of the reflex I developed when facing my friends, I almost always anticipate a walk-up throw so I try to tech accordingly, only to end up teching nothing and getting sweeped and subsequently wake-up gamed.


#4

I jump too much and when I realize I’m doing it, I go to fireball traps, which I always screw up. I don’t use my Demon Flip enough and I only use counters to mess with people as more of a, “Piss you off” technique than an actual tool. Another thing I try to do is go for big juggles I know I can’t always time right, or might not even work on some characters.


#5

Demon flip > dive kick > sweep.

I used to have a lot of trouble doing Demon flip > dive kick > c.FP > Palm but I still have the reflex to combo into sweep. Nothing too serious that gets my into trouble, but I do miss a lot of damage.


#6

Oh, man. I think I’ve got tons.

Starting matches with hp Hadou, and I eat damage right off the bat.
Too much reliance on dash punch.
No hit confirm on my combos. This pops up a lot when I do Flip > Dive Kick > s.HP > (EX)Palm
Not FA-ing or countering enough.

And something my friend told me as I continued to play him: I don’t make opponents “scared.” I’m not making my opponents afraid to throw out moves.


#7

Overuse of demon flips + conditioning my opponent to tech


#8
  • I jump straight way too much when I panic.
  • Backthrow when enemy empty crosses-up.
  • I try to set up anti-air ultra way too much.

On what rebound said about not being able to scare your opponents into throwing moves, I have kinda the same, except for scaring them off jumping.

Also, Ive been meaning to upload a few vids of me fighting for a while so you guys can comment on…will try to do so this week.


#9
  1. You probably jump a lot because Gouken’s jab is garbage and you are scared of getting thrown. Online tech is kinda…iffy. With characters like Ryu (or Boxer’s c.lp), he can basically jab or crouch short anyone into a block string ending with hado if they try to walk up throw. Gouken can’t really do that - his c.lk is LOOOOL slow and his c.lp is weak.

  2. AA ultra is fine offline but that 11 frame window is bleh online IMO

  3. Making people scared when playing Gouken is difficult. He is basically a zoning character - the best scenario is typically that you zone them and frustrate them and then punish them badly when they trip up. The only real way to scare people with Gouken is to try demon flip mixups on opponent wakeup. If they don’t have a reversal srk-type move they can be in real trouble. However, for characters like Sagat - he really has no reason to fear Gouken at all, ever.


#10

I play gouken for his distance. Using a lot of fireballs. Most people get physced out on low low medium to low high fireball. A good mix up always screwed them. If they deside to jump rush. They get the EX fireball. then from there if they make it too close. Its combo time.

But my best chances are in the corners. People are done for in the corner. Where he has his main game.

But my fav thing about gouken is his block attack . People get pwned by it and never seem to learn from it.


#11

I’ve got lots of bad habits. I could confess to almost all of the things that have allready been mentioned in this thread. But for me, I think my worst habit is punishing blocked shoryukens with backthrow when I don’t have ultra, so I end up doing a fierce hurricane when I could propably have landed a combo instead.


#12

Thats my worst one too :sweat:


#13

Interesting, I usually just sweep.


#14

Likewise. I sometimes rely on the Back Throw and sometimes even the regular throw far too much to punished whiffed uppercuts when in reality, I could have just as easily done s.HP / cr.HP --> EX Palm --> Whatever and nabbed a ton more damage than simply a forward throw, or back throw into Tatsu.

I need to keep myself calm and stop throwing out the wrong moves out of sheer reflex or instinct because sometimes it definitely bars me from doing better things.


#15

I think the easiest things for me to overuse are the demon flip and counter.

Demon flip is really easy to stuff if you know it’s coming, especially for the characters with an SRK. Even when I use the absorb against one, I barely have time to do anything and rarely wind up better off.

As far as Counter, I find it’s usually best to play as if you don’t have it most of the time and wait till you’re sure it’s gonna work. It’s so annying to get repeatedly thrown cause you’re countering too much. But as with anything, it’s worth mixing it up sometimes.

I think the biggest mistake though is to get too involved in the game. If I am upset then it’s just a ticket to losertown. Getting inside the other guys’ head is essential for good Gouken play, and so yoiu’ve gotta keep it cool.


#16

(1) Playing while drunk

(2) Using EX demon flip from a mile away and being punished with a neutral Jump

(3) Mashing counter when under close range pressure


#17

you know, as for the third point you stated, I think that might not be true.

I think I should start developing better attack paterns. Seriously, we have ex counter, a kara-throw, demon flip, good pokes(st. mk, st. hp, cr. lk, st. mp) and some really nasty combos. that should really frustrate them.

I was thinking if we could come up with something along these lines on the video, and then more:

[media=youtube]n-O-dJQbb8M[/media]

We might be missing a huge part of his game!


#18

That Youtube link doesn’t work…


#19

Fixd.
[media=youtube]n-O-dJQbb8M[/media]


#20

My bad habit: does anything on wake-up.

Gouken’s wake-up options are fucking terrible. EX demon flip is a garbage, it’s just that most people don’t know how to deal with it. We all know how retardly unsafe the EX hurricane is.