Balancing requests for T.Hawk in SSF4 AE to Capcom

t-hawk

#1

Please post your Requests on this thread at Capcom-Unity http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/28040317/Balancing_requests_for_T.Hawk_in_SSF4_Arcade_Edition.

I just thought it’d be nice to have a thread here too just because there’s more leniency in case you guys wanna get into much deeper details. Capcom has stated in the past that fan feedback and such does indeed have an effect on the balancing they’ve done in the SF4 series. There’s no guarantee that they’ll take all or even any of our requests into consideration, but it wouldn’t hurt to try. T.Hawk is the character we love and enjoy playing, and if we can make a difference to enrich our lives, let’s put in some effort to try and make it happen.

My idea of some changes for T.Hawk -

  1. Extended downward hitbox for his Standing Roundhouse.
  2. Regular Condor Dive having further pushback when blocked.
  3. Regular Tomahawk Buster having faster startup as well as improved hitbox.
  4. Regular Condor Spire having faster startup as well as being safer on block.
  5. EX Condor Spire -> Raging Slash (Ultra 2) possible as a link.

#2

I don’t know anything about balancing but I’d like to see ultra 2 changed to a better input from a having to deal with this shit standpoint.


#3

This. Its bad enough that I still can’t pull it off consistently anymore (when I’m under pressure). I’m convinced that half circles are harder to do now, since my friend can’t pull off Ibuki’s Ultra I consistently either. This has lead him to using Cammy quite a bit (and his Cammy sucks…too bad he doesn’t listen to me since I suck against all Cammys >_>). Two QCFs+PPP would be perfect for a reaction-based ultra.

I’d like to see regular Spire safer, too, but its not that big of a deal to me.


#4

I rather have Condor dive have less recovery then pushback. Maybe make it have fewer frames of recovery that why if people don’t react right away to a block condor, they cant punish.

I think there is nothing wrong with his buster, FP one has plenty of invincibility after startup. Only thing I would like is it to have more vertical range like it did in ST or how adon’s jaguar uppercut is.

I agree with you on his spire, giving almost every other character something that is safe on block, they should at least give thawk that because that is his only move that he can really do on the ground.

They also need to make his whiffed spd have less recovery time, really stupid when they give yun/yang a command grab that has really good recovery and is able to do a lot of damage than a spd.

The biggest request I would want is for thawk to be able to combo a move after low MK. Give it more stun on hit and be able to cancel it to a LP buster or EX spire. That would make thawk a lot better, IMO.

Although I doubt we would get what we want, its always good to dream. haha.


#5

Not going to lie. That change list except for the Ultra Input would break t. hawk lol.

  1. Extended downward hitbox for his Standing Roundhouse.
    It’s used for anti-air and preventing people from jumping. It works like a still version of zangief’s roundhouse. It’s already great as it is.

  2. Regular Condor Dive having further pushback when blocked.
    It’d be nice, but I feel like that’d be a little unfair. There has to be some risk involved in just throwing it out coming from a design perspective. T. hawk isn’t yun and gets away with everything being safe on block.
    3.) I agree with lol (maybe not the hitbox), but does need faster startup

  3. Regular Condor Spire having faster startup as well as being safer on block.
    This is the change that would make t. hawk broken. They’re already pretty godly and the hitbox is crazy. The EX is for rushing in, but the standard ones should only be used to close distance. If you’re using the normal ones offensively (outside of the s. fierce counter hit setup) then you’re playing T. Hawk wrong.

  4. EX Condor Spire -> Raging Slash (Ultra 2) possible as a link.
    I’d opt for an input change than a combo lol.

Sorry if it seems like I’m ripping on you. Nothing personal, just opinions here :stuck_out_tongue:

My Change list:

  • Ultra II Input change

**HCBx2 is completely unintuitive to his move set. Not to mention in order to do it you need to hit Forward TWICE while somebody is jumping at you. If you fuck up the motion you’ve now eaten a full combo/ultra. Seriously just make it qcb x 2. That wouldn’t interfere with any of his other motions (the condor spire has odd input properties so you can’t use shortcuts on it so it wouldn’t matter.)

  • Improve far s. forward hitbox

**It’s a great poke, however it hits right before the heel which makes no sense, it’d make ken’s step kick non-sense a little easier to shut down (with a trade)

  • Thrust Peak (DF+Jab) Button change

** Change this to DF+Strong. You can’t hold forward during cr. jabs to setup tick throws, which in turn makes SPD’s unnecessarily harder to setup than they should be, not to mention would help with any cr. jab > ex toma. buster.

  • Startup Invincibility on EX-Condor Dive (1~6) invincible on the 11-frame startup.

** There is no reason why EX-Dive should lose to Ken’s jump-forward RH air to air. (Or his mid air-tatsu air to air.)

  • Any tool to Deal with Blanka

** This match-up is so damned broken. Free blanka balls, runaway tactics, zero max range punishes.

I’ve played some of the best blankas out there, blanka wins at a 7-3 easily. (Hell even gief has Kara-EXGH as a ball punish).

Without EX you can’t fight blanka. Once he grabs the life lead it’s pretty much impossible to win. T-srai I’m talking to you -_-.


#6

One thing he definately needs is improved walk speed.


#7

Great suggestions guys. Be sure to post these on the thread at Capcom-Unity. The more that people post, the more they’ll see that T.Hawk really does need some changes.


#8

^Agreed about Thrust Peak being DF+MP.

Please, please, please…change Spire to F, D, DF + K. A regular DP motion instead of this whack-ass reverse DP motion and K instead of P. It’s more intuitive and it could be done while walking forward easier. Having a shortcut for it would be nice too, but whatever.

Ultra 2 should be double QCF or double QCB.

A few tweaks to some of his pokes. Hitbox/startup/recovery buffs.

I’d also REALLY like to see a 360+K move that does…idk…SOMETHING.


#9

I completely agree. Pretty much all of the other Grapple characters have some sort of K command grab. Gief and Hakan (despite the fact that Hakan’s K command grab really sucks…) do for sure.

I agree with everyone else, that Condor Dive should be less punishable than it is.

I feel that H Command Grab should be given just a little bit more range, considering how far it pushes you back after performing it.

I think that Spire should be given a little bit more range, and I also agree that the input should change. It doesn’t make much sense for a move that goes directly forward, to have an input like 4214P… I mean, why can’t it have a QCF K motion instead? That way it won’t interfere with Buster. T.Hawk has one special K (Ha, Special K x3) and that’s EX Condor Dive.


#10

I see alot of people making the request for balance changes, but no one is posting it on the capcom unity site where we actually need to. Its great discussing it among ourselves, but hell we play Hawk, we know what he needs. Chazz posted the link so lets get a few more people posting their thoughts so hopefully we can get some of these changes made.


#11

Isn’t it more advantageous to have spire on back as it produces blocking frames during the directional input?


#12

That’s probably true. But at least for me, I don’t use Spire as a reversal or on reaction mostly. I feel that other than Condor Dive, he needs another option in getting in easier. And actually on that note, personally, I can perform a 6236 faster than a 4214, so despite the blocking advantage, if I could get Spire out a lot quicker, I could use it on reaction, and probably wouldn’t need the block. But again, you’re probably right. It’s just my own personal opinion. :slight_smile:

I do agree, however I feel that most of what I said had already been said by other people, save for a couple things. I know it seems pointless of me to have actually posted then, but I had a slightly difference opinion on a couple things, and I enjoy the discussion. But I could still post it I suppose.


#13

cant hurt to have more ideas for capcom


#14

But it’s the same input. Changing it would just reverse which side you execute it on.


#15

Right, I know that. But my mind tells me “Hey, DP motion is a forward moving attack.” Not, “Backwards DP will go forwards.” So the DP motion no matter the direction is easier for me. Sorry, I didn’t exactly make that clear. :slight_smile:


#16

Almost everyone in the game needs improved walk speed. So ghey that a lot of the higher tiers can just invade your space with their walk speed and dumb ass normals whenever they want and you have no way to solidly control it.


#17

I thought about it, and you know what? Screw making Spire a DP+K…make it a standard fireball motion with kick. Not THAT would be nice.

Edit: And yes, we SHOULD all be posting this at Capcom Unity too.


#18

It would be very difficult to argue that we need faster walk speed when we are also asking for spire to be safe(er) on block. Not saying dont ask, cause you never know. Just seems that if Hawk could freely move around the screen without as much of a challenge getting close it might make him a little too unbalanced. Playing these heavy grapplers like Hawk, Gief, and Hakan you knowing sacrifice movement speed for insane damage potential when you close the gap. I think a fair trade would be to make condor spire safer to use so that we have some way of slowly moving forward (with proper spacing).

Either way, keep on posting on Capcom, I would welcome anything to improve his game.


#19

Yeah guys, please post on the Thread at Capcom-Unity if you have any requests http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/28040317/Balancing_requests_for_T.Hawk_in_SSF4_Arcade_Edition

This Thread here on SRK is just in case you wanna discuss things in greater detail that Capcom-Unity doesn’t tolerate well (Trolling, Whining, Comparing, etc), lol.


#20

Agreed.