Balrog Glitches: Faster Super / Ultra Startup And EX Kara Cancels (aka Armor Cancels)

[Jay_Wang]

Reducing the Startup by 1 Frame for Super and Ultra: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=209440

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Credit goes to Gilley, Cole, XKenoX et al to confirm that this “glitch” exists.

Gilley - http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5721968&postcount=53

Cole - http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5722568&postcount=75

XKenoX - http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6008184&postcount=34

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This is not a Balrog only glitch. Here is a video showcasing the other EX Armor Cancels found in SF4:

http://www.versuscity.net/2009/03/05/missing-parries-in-sf4/

Abel - EX Rekka
Geif - EX 360+KK
El Fuerte - EX Run - [media=youtube]MLhBJS_P-io[/media] (thanks to: BioGenx2b)

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In short, it has been discovered that the hit absorb of EX Special Moves with super armour properties (i.e. all of Rog’s EX Punch Specials) can be immediately canceled into either:

1. A second normal Special (ie TAP, credit: Ranix) or a second EX Special (ie: EX Headbutt)
2. Super
3. Ultra.

The “glitch” is that the 1st EX move does not cost any EX meter after performing the cancel!

However 2nd move which you canceled into will still consume your EX / Super / Ultra meter as normal. If you choose to cancel into a regular special move, it will not consume any stock.

**** * * * * * * * * * * EX Rush Punch xx Ultra * * * * * * * * * * ****

Video

Japanese Players - (3:48) http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm5154930

Plug above link into the re-direct: http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html

XKenoX @ Denjin - (3:15) [media=youtube]JF0Aemuf87M&feature=channel_page[/media]

What It Appears To Be:

Rog performing a SA/FA and then immediately canceling into Ultra. This was everyone’s initial thought as no EX bar was being consumed and the startup animations are very similar.

What It Really Is:

1. Rog performing an EX special (most likely a rush punch)
2. Next, the hit is absorbed (due to the armour properties of the EX move. Notice that the hit being absorbed is a single, non-armour breaking hit, usually a fireball).
3. Immediately following, the Ultra is performed (canceling the startup frames of the EX move)

IF A HIT IS NOT ABSORBED, THEN ONLY THE EX SPECIAL COMES OUT (THE ULTRA DOES NOT EXECUTE!).

What It Is Not:

• It is not canceling the hit of the EX special into the Ultra (ala “super” cancels). Watch the video examples again if this is unclear for you.
• It is not canceling the **“hit absorb” ** from doing a FA/SA into an Ultra.

Therefore you must absorb a non-armor breaking hit from an EX Rush Punch (or any other EX special with armor) in order to cancel into an Ultra!

How To Do It:

1. charge b / db
2. f, b + PPP (EX rush executes with hit absorb)
3. f + PPP (ultra executes)

**** * * EX Rush Punch xx Super OR Any Special (EX and Non EX) * * ****

Video Examples

EX Rush Punch xx Super:

XKenoX @ Denjin - (1:35, 2:20) [media=youtube]JF0Aemuf87M&feature=channel_page[/media]

1. charge b / db
2. f, b + PPP (EX rush executes with hit absorb)
3. f + P (super executes)

tips: “piano” or “drum” all 3 Punch buttons to ensure the super comes out.

EX Ground Rush Punch xx EX Rush Punch:

credit: jjjones @ ??? - [media=youtube]WSkkgZjuA8o[/media]

1. charge d / db
2. df + PP (absorb hit)
3. roll joystick to f and press PP

Shortcut Method (credit: jjjones)

An easy way to do the low straight ex into the straight ex is to hold db and as the fireball comes, do a QCF motion and PP. Just like you would if you were using a shoto and linking a c.mk into fireball motion. Works consistently.

you can also perform a dash torpedo as your 2nd ex move by pressing KK after you perform the QCF PP motion and vice versa.

EX Rush Punch xx TAP:

credit: terracotta @ ??? - [media=youtube]uEEjcSzAfu0[/media]

1. hold KKK
2. charge b / db
3. f+PPP (absorb hit),
4. quickly release KKK

EX Rush Punch xx EX Headbutt:

currently no video examples

1. charge db
2. f+PPP (absorb hit)
3. quickly roll to joystick to uf and press PPP

**** * * * * * * * * * * Timing of the Cancel * * * * * * * * * * ****

**I have been playing around with this and if you are having a tough time with the cancel, it is more than likely that you are absorbing the hit (armor) too late. **

The fireball or whatever needs to be armored through at almost the last moment possible and the cancel must be done very fast, faster than you’d do it normally I’ll assume, Make the motion as fluid as possible.

charge back, forward + 3p, back, forward + 3p, that is my method.

Visual Clues To Look For:

• the hit absorb must happen while balrog is still standing up straight.
• if you absorb (say a fireball) at any point of when balrog is in the forward motion of the rush punch, it is too late to perform the cancel
• balrog hunches his head and body slightly towards the opponent once he begins to rush forward. you need to absorb the hit BEFORE this animation occurs.
• if you played 3S, think of the timing as doing a parry as LATE as possible.
• if you are getting the EX Rush Punch to come out but not able to cancel, you are not doing EX Rush Punch late enough.
• keep this in mind and watch the video examples again. I practiced yesterday for 30 mins or so and I can get more the cancel now more than half of the time.

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Please use this thread to discuss the CHARACTER SPECIFIC …

… useful applications (ie setups, frame traps, baitouts etc)
… limitations of the cancel
… anything else that you discover

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[pootnannies]

this should go in the general sf4 thread because it appears that he’s not the only one who can do it

[Jay_Wang]

this should go in the general sf4 thread because it appears that he’s not the only one who can do it

The purpose of this thread is the discuss the CHARACTER SPECIFIC applications of this newly discovered glitch with Balrog.

There already exists a general thread in the main forum - from which it has been established how to perform the glitch and what is really happening. Feel free to go there if you want to learn more about the who/what/where/why/etc about the glitch.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=167444

Hopefully we will also be able to come up with a reason as why it is happening but maybe not as it is a glitch and sometimes these things are not explainable!

[pootnannies]

whoopsies! sorry about that

[A-Dhalsim]

There Correct way to perform the move Jay Wang, is

Charge B, F, B+PP (ex rush will come out) F+P (Kara the last P for Ultra)

So as u pull back and and begin to go forward, hit mp+Lp then Kara the last P

You can go ahead and update the first post if u like Jay Wang

Yes, this is character specific, only chars with Super Armor Ex. honda, gief, el furte, Rog, Abel

Cole

[Jay_Wang]

Man
I’m such a newb.
I was at the arcade yesterday trying for the whole night using the wrong method of:
b,f,b,f+PP(hold)~P
and of course instead of ultra cancels I was getting all this other random bullshit like ex rush punches, ex headbutts, supers, etc.
lols. guess I will have to go back today and try it out with the proper motion

One “trick” that I already thought of for this use would be:

Step 1) Max range lvl 1 TAP (which opponent blocks)
Step 2) EX~Ultra

Rog is only at -2 frame disadvantage after a blocked lvl 1 TAP. However when done at max range (if only the tip of Rog’s glove hits the opponent), you finish just inside sweep range. Most people I play will try and stick out a poke afterwards. The poke is usually a medium or heavy attack as Rog will be out of range for most if not all crouching and standing jabs / shorts. These attacks after often 5-7 frames of startup with 2-3 hit frames.

As a result by the time the hit box is active, Rog returns to neutral state and is able to successfully block their medium poke (shotos will often do cr forward, for example).

Now with EX~Ultra, you can absorb the poke (a shoto cr forward) and then punish with Ultra for big damage! On the other hand if you guessed wrong and they don’t poke, it’s all good because you get an EX rush punch forward and continue to mount pressure!

side note: EX rush punch is also -2 on block. I will have to see how the spacing works out after performing it from just outside of sweep range.

Previously I would do a lvl 1 TAP --> Ultra for the same effect as above. It was as a cheap “all or nothing” palor trick (read: high risk, high reward). When it worked life was great and I would get lots of “OHHs” and “AHHHs!” from the crowd. But when I guessed wrong, I would be on the receiving end of a big damage combo.

Now with the discovery of EX~Ultra kara, a LOW RISK, HIGH REWARD option select situation is created. Awesome.

Anyways thanks for the clarification Cole, I guess I will have to go back and try again! Let me know what else you find!

[terracotta]

could someone put the Balrog one on Youtube? i can’t see it even with the MMCafe redirect…

[Footsy_Bebop]

Yes, this is character specific, only chars with Super Armor Ex. honda, gief, el furte, Rog, Abel

Cole

Wow. So can you do Gief’s EX Running Bear Grab into Ultra?? sick! Gief’s ultra as an anti air??

[runaround]

Wow. So can you do Gief’s EX Running Bear Grab into Ultra?? sick! Gief’s ultra as an anti air??

If the ex kara window isn’t long enough, the ultra might come out too fast for use as antiair. Anybody know anything about this?

[haunts]

works in console version (at this point) too. we did it last night with rog.

[XnoyHoy]

Finally got this to work… barely…

I have been a believer that this isn’t as practical as it seems, but after the whole theory from Jason Cole saying, on hit the opponent freezes momentarily got me thinking…

One problem I have is, yes in those vids in looks nice and flashy, but I’m sure they are not posting the vids of the opponents baiting out the Ex dash punch and ending in failure (or you cant tell it failed:rolleyes:).

I want to see EX Dash Punch Kara Cancel an opponents jab and still land the Ultra, without getting jab again or the opponent blocking the ultra… then that evidence conclusively proves more of its usefulness

[gilley]

Finally got this to work… barely…

I have been a believer that this isn’t as practical as it seems, but after the whole theory from Jason Cole saying, on hit the opponent freezes momentarily got me thinking…

One problem I have is, yes in those vids in looks nice and flashy, but I’m sure they are not posting the vids of the opponents baiting out the Ex dash punch and ending in failure (or you cant tell it failed:rolleyes:).

I want to see EX Dash Punch Kara Cancel an opponents jab and still land the Ultra, without getting jab again or the opponent blocking the ultra… then that evidence conclusively proves more of its usefulness

Yeah, I doubt you will be able to use it against an opponent’s jab and still land the ultra. Jab’s have about 7 frames of recovery on average and Balrog’s ultra has 11 frames of startup. Add to that the 3-5 frames that the EX Kara Dash will add to the ultra, and I believe the opponent will be able to block. It probably would be better to just straight up ultra. That’s why I doubt the practicality of this technique.

[Jay_Wang]

works in console version (at this point) too. we did it last night with rog.

where did you play the console version?

Finally got this to work… barely…

Yeah, it’s pretty hard. I can get it like <5% of the time. lols. :looney:

I have been a believer that this isn’t as practical as it seems, but after the whole theory from Jason Cole saying, on hit the opponent freezes momentarily got me thinking…

I want to see EX Dash Punch Kara Cancel an opponents jab and still land the Ultra, without getting jab again or the opponent blocking the ultra… then that evidence conclusively proves more of its usefulness

Rog’s Ultra has 11 frames of startup. The first frame, the opponent can make an input but the last 10 are the “freeze” frames. (The Mook says during the last 10 frames block is the only accepted input).

So if you were to EX Absorb a normal that had more than 10 frames of recovery then (in theory, I think) the freeze would be sufficient and the ultra will connect. Do you guys think this is accurate?

But from the video, I think Rog EX absorbed a cr jab or something before doing the ultra cancel? (I can’t check atm, I’m at work )

[Diveman]

mm but, lets say Rog absorbs a poke, and goes into ultra, if the opp cancels that poke (buffering before the poke hits) into a special move wih enough invulnerability, does rog still hits them with the ultra? taking into account those 10 frame freeze??

[HamidoOs]

Now with EX~Ultra, you can absorb the poke (a shoto cr forward) and then punish with Ultra for big damage! On the other hand if you guessed wrong and they don’t poke, it’s all good because you get an EX rush punch forward and continue to mount pressure!

So, if you guess wrong and they don’t poke, can you still cancel that EX rush punch into Ultra?
I mean, is it possible to cancel this move into ultra without absorbing any pokes?

[BustaBust]

snip

no you can’t. you have to absorb a hit, its the key to this trick/the only way this trick is possible.

[Coopa]

I’m sorry if the information is already there, but Barlog’s kara is… mk, correct?
Edit: Nvm. I think I got it now.

A friend of mine asked:
if a two-hit move is done onto the ex-special attack, it will beat the glitch, right?

[nsx7]

this is very interesting…
gotta try this for mahself

[Pieguy]

I’m having a bit of trouble understanding the practicality of this ex kara cancel.

First question is with the input “Charge B, F, B+PP (ex rush will come out) F+P (Kara the last P for Ultra)” the ex move will come out using B+PP even though the special input is b,f+PP?

Next question is do you have to hit the 3rd punch after you absorb the hit or do you do it immediately after the animation for your ex move comes out? Like could I do a full screen overhead dash punch and as soon as I start moving, hit the 3rd punch? This way if they throw a projectile or try to ultra/srk me, I’d immediately ultra after eating the hit? It’d be a nice way to purposefully bait laggy moves while you’re abusing rog’s ultra invincibility on startup.

[Teppelin]

I’m having a bit of trouble understanding the practicality of this ex kara cancel.

First question is with the input “Charge B, F, B+PP (ex rush will come out) F+P (Kara the last P for Ultra)” the ex move will come out using B+PP even though the special input is b,f+PP?

Next question is do you have to hit the 3rd punch after you absorb the hit or do you do it immediately after the animation for your ex move comes out? Like could I do a full screen overhead dash punch and as soon as I start moving, hit the 3rd punch? This way if they throw a projectile or try to ultra/srk me, I’d immediately ultra after eating the hit? It’d be a nice way to purposefully bait laggy moves while you’re abusing rog’s ultra invincibility on startup.

1. The EX move does come out. Gootecks recently informed me of this as Charge Buffering. Yeah, it works, and apparently has been working forever. It’s something I’ve been working on for the ex. rush upper loop.

2. Best example of this being used in a tourney match: XKenoX was playing against a Sagat player who threw an EX low tiger shot. Keno ex. rush punches, absorbs the 1st hit of the tiger shot and cancels into ultra, killing Sagat. It was amazing.