Balrog Thread


#365

Okay, i am not sure if this link will work:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/game/583631.html

It goes to the ST faqs, and mine is the Balrog one, obviously, let me know what you guys think. If that link isn’t allowed just type in “Super Street Fighter II Turbo” and click arcade and FAQs.


#366

which rog instand overhead is better? j.short or j.forward?

and what about his s.forward? (both far and close version), are they good to use?


#367

Some stuff that fuck me up

Afro has mentioned that in ST you can use the fingers to charge TAP and use punches with their tips. There is a video of Tamashima doing that in this thread, I believe. He can also give up TAP by releasing a single button, if TAP is not desired. Even better, he can release a button and negative edge a kick rush, thus having access to all his specials while charging horizontal rushes, headbutt and TAP.

Against Ryu (not sure about Ken due to his slightly longer horizontal range), cr.strong on wakeup is safe if he has no super. SRK will whiff and leave him vulnerable to a rush. At the beginning of the round, fierce headbutt also beats hadouken. In fact, it will beat anything but doing nothing or jumping back. Of course, just throwing it out there will lead to average damage punishments and, most likely, a knockdown.

After a hadouken from a relatively close distance or landing from jumps and short tatsus, Rog should not get predictable with rush punches, as it can lead to shoryukens and a chance of a comeback to the shoto. From a longer distance, if you rush as soon as possible, you may eat a st.strong, which has a chance of beating all Rog’s rushes. It may help to often give enough time for the enemy to whiff moves at such clutch moments.

There is always a chance a cross-up tatsu will completely whiff due to Rog’s surprisingly small crouching hitbox on block: be ready to use strong hold as he lands. On the other hand, watch out for ducking too long and getting crossed up with roundhouse. Elite Ryus can confirm the cross up and cr.strong into SRK on hit (no good of you) or mix up on block.

Cr.fierce beats or trades with all his jump ins.

Edit: after a low kick rush, Rog can try a strong hold immediately followed by a jab headbutt. Any late flash kicks or the like will be stuffed by the headbutt which kara-cancels standing strong.

Edit2: Zangief: 1, 2 and 3.


#368

I would use J. forward. They have the same animation I believe, and both work as instant overheads, so you might as well go for the extra damage one. BEWARE though, ST is cursed with Jumanji. I had a match where I knocked down a cornered Zangief, he had ZERO vitality left, not even a visible 1pt of HP left.

He woke up and I instant overheaded. He took no discernable damage even though he got hit, then when I landed he SPD’ed me to kill me. It was the most infuriating bullshit I have ever had happen to me in a tournament before. It of course, was the deciding round and I lost due to that fucking BS.

There is no far version of st. Forward. It is very good up close as a meaty and a tick throw, it has the same timing to use for a tick throw as cr. forward.

This is VERY good information, and I honestly didn’t know this, it is going into the FAQ on the next version, and I will be trying to incorporate it into my play. Thanks man. :tup:

IMO The correct answer to a whiffed Tatsu is always a cr. FP, followed closely by meaty cr. strong >low rush as he lands. You cannot give the opponent chances to throw you when they have a 50% chance of landing counter throw in this game, go for guaranteed damage…


#369

This is incorrect, there are two versions of st.MK, the closer one looks like a compressed gut punch, with a short swing; the further one (which you still have to be reasonably close to do) is when he leans forwards to do the punch.

St.MK is an incredibly useful move, because the far version has great range and I’ve noticed people tend to mash for some reason when they see this move. It’s his best standing, close range poke.

A simple okizeme mixup is doing st.MK->throw, then when you get the next opportunity do st.MK->cr.Roundhouse.


#370

Wouldn’t counter throwing st. mk>low RH beat the RH part? I mean, I do this trick too but I suspect if they think you’re going for the throw and try to counter throw, they would beat your trip? I’d like to know the frame data for this…


#371

Whenever I do st.MK->cr.RH I’m at a range where the st.MK connects, but invariably it’s outside their throw range. It works so well because people tend to mash after the blocked st.MK, as they expect a throw coming, yet they’re way outside throw range. Works great even against Dic, Sim who have great throw ranges but no reversal move.

I love doing st.MK->cr.RH because it’s just a solid blockstring. People fall for the cr.RH surprisingly often. And if they block it, you can often catch them by surprise with a super immediately afterwards. I like doing this against Dic because often they try to reply with scissor kick immediately after blocking the cr.RH.

As a side note, the Dic matchup is great because you can do so many variations on blockstrings thanks to his lack of reversal move. Can be fun pressure mindgames with jump-in leading to blockstring, into throw, knockdown, or whiffed rush into normal move or another jump-in etc etc.

I have to check the frame data too, but I could swear that when Dic is crouching, his hitbox is slightly further away. Against Ryu, you can do a jump-in at any range, land and do cr.Strong, and the cr.Strong will connect. Against Dic, often the cr.Strong won’t connect. Probably just my imagination though. That said, all the more reason to use st.MK imo.


#372

^I wish I had a copy of Yoga Book hyper or I’d check that for you. Sounds interesting.

Also repeated jump backs with roundhouse against dictator are very difficult to do anything about, as well as jump forward lk, jump back lk, repeat.


#373

Here’s something I just noticed between N.Boxer and O.Boxer about their hold. N.Boxer’s hold does 9 hits by default. O.Boxer’s hold does 12 hits by default. So an advantage that O.Boxer has is that his hold will yield more hits with the same amount of struggling. I never picked up on that until I was fooling around with my CPSII board today.

Overall N.Boxer is of course a much better character though. :sweat:


#374

In this game, every time you move the joystick left or right and press a throw button, the character attempts a throw. You can see that with Dammit’s recent throw-box function in his hitbox lua. The exception is Balrog’s hold. For some odd reason, it only triggers if you are close to the enemy. From maximum range, even though if you would draw his box and it would be enough, it does not appear, and he does not grab his opponent. The reason why his Fierce hold has even less range is that it only triggers from a closer distance. Dammit had identified this phenomenon for WW Zangief, previously.


#375

O.boxer’s tap seems so much faster than n’s. I really like o boxer but the lack of super really hurts him against fireball characters.


#376

Been playing a little SSF2T lately. Mainly using Boxer. I gotta say, it feels awesome to succesfully rush someone down. Haahha.

I’ve got a question regarding a combo of Boxer’s. Namely his j.HP, cr.LP, st.LP xx Dash Punch. Which strength should you use to do the Dash Punch with? (Now keep in mind that in this scenario the combo itself doesn’t stun). Obviously his fierce version knocks down, but is his oki all that great? I tend to use jab Dash mostly to leave the opponent standing. After the Dash I’ll try to hit them with a st.fierce or cr.roundhouse for a pretty much guaranteed stun. If they get blocked I’ll have already charged up long enough to go either for a short or jab low rush.

So which is the better of the two, fishing for the stun after the jab Dash or playing the rigged wakeup game?


#377

I’ve been playing against a few Sims on GGPO and i worked out a few of the dynamics regarding the presure game vs him, probably all common knowlage but i thought i’d post anyway

Balrog vs Dhalsim

Meaty/Wake up Presure -

As always you can do early rush upper wiff into the headbutt or throw 50/50 but if he blocks the headbutt he gets a free throw, which is a massive game changer as if he throws you in the corner its near to impossible to get out without super meter or at best you’ve still got to get back in on him.
[INDENT=1]Doing a meaty cr.jab after the rush upper will put you at the correct distance to land a safe jab.headbutt, but he can still throw the meaty making it just as unsafe.[/INDENT]

Meaty TAP is the safest option as he has no reversal that can get him out of it, the hard part is continuing pressure after the blocked tap.
[INDENT=1]If the TAP is high level you can go into the 50/50 throw or headbutt mixup as the move pushes you so far forward you will be right next to him.[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]If the TAP is low level you can do low rush which will beat out fireballs but leaves you with very limited follow ups (only st.fierce, another TAP or fierce.headbutt), it is also beaten clean by cr.forward which a lot of Dhalsim players like to spam relentlessly to push you away and start using some of his longer reaching pokes. To counter the cr.forward you can do another TAP which will beat it clean and hit a lot of damage, putting you back in the same situation as before (In my opinion you want to use the low level TAP as the meaty then the high level TAP as the counter poke as you are much more likely to hit it). What makes this mixup so crucial in my opinion is you can make the player reluctant to spam cr.forward making it a lot easier to land throws and low rushes. [/INDENT]


#378

What I am having problems with is sacrificing my kicks for the TAP.
Is there some characters that i really shouldnt bother charging a high lvl TAP for?


#379

The only matchups you really need a high charged TAP for is sim


#380

First page.


#381

In the guile matchup I don’t rate tap because you really need cr.forward to beat his footsies and due to the recovery of sonic boom you’re best off trying to trade with jab straight.


#382

I can’t seem to find ST/HDR frame datas at all. Is there one for Balrog? If yes, could somebody link it to me please?


#383

Right now, we have not obtained complete frame data as number of frames for every possible animation of his attacks. But you can get the basic frame data, which start-up, hitting and recovery frames, from Yoga Book Hyper or T.Akiba’s SF2 Frame Data page (translation kindly presented by NKI). These are now known not to be perfect, but they are often not too far off. Yoga Book showed to be more accurate.

Edit: I think Papasi’s Hitbox page has the frame data from the YBH. Here is Rog’s section.
Edit2: a few characters have their complete data on the Wiki. Guile, for instance.


#384

Thanks a bunch, I appreciate it!

EDIT: I’ve been studying Balrog’s frame data from the YBH. I’ve noticed that there weren’t any information on frame advantages on block/hit and the first link seems to give me funky texts. Do you have another link for T.Akiba’s?