Balrog winning a major?

balrog

#1

Does anybody know of Balrog winning any majors? do you think he has what it takes without using a sub-character for his bad matchups? it was surprising to not see balrog in top 32 at evo but is he placing high anywhere else? Japan, Korea, Europe


#2

I think Gooteks won a tournament with Balrog shortly after SF4 was released. Just because Balrog doesn’t dominate tournaments doesn’t mean a whole lot – he has the tools to win, it’s just a matter of the best players out there sticking with the characters they’ve used forever. If someone can win a fucking tournament with Adon, someone can win one with Balrog, period.


#3

look at how close justin came to beating daigo at evo09 to know rog is legit


#4

Absolutely, I watched every bit of Justin Wong vs. Daigo at evo09. Balrog wasn’t nerfed and stayed relatively the same from what I can see. His amazing normals, pokes, and easy juggle into ultra make Balrog a very consistent and reliable character. His juggle into ultra also gives him amazing comeback potential. Balrog has the tools to take on anyone, even the great zoning characters if the Rog player has the patience.


#5

Thanks for the reply i have been been playing rog pretty exclusively since vanilla and i hold my own very well at my skill level just wondering what you guys thought and I am still practicing and learning new tricks,this game is awesome!


#6

Rog is a fucking beast. I would play him if he wasn’t regarded so lowly as a scrub/bandwagon char by a lot of people (no offense). I feel that Balrog is underrepresented at tournaments due to all players knowing his tricks, and a lot of players knowing their stuff on the forums but not being able to act on it.


#7

Yeah there was this one tournament in vanilla where Gootecks beat Justin Wong in GF to win it all. Interestingly though, Justin picked Guile. that’s like a 6 1/2, 3 1/2 matchup in my opinion.


#8

why is he considered a band wagon character???i feel like alot of ppl like his style so they use him…and u can know characters tricks its your job 2 understand tha cast and their tricks…that doesnt mean its easily stoped. dont not main a character cause of popular opinion main him because he fits u and your style…and rog is not a character 2 main if u r a scrub he may b a tad difficult


#9

A scrub is a player who’s bad but doesn’t want to learn afaik. Rog is easy to pick up but you won’t stand a chance against good players, you can write that down.

Balrog is a character where you will dominate at low-level/mid-level if you have a solid grasp on him, but at high-level it’s a different story, and I’m sure top Balrog players would tell you the same.


#10

Hmm. I can’t say anything for sure because I’m not into the tournament scene yet but I do believe that a character being tournament worthy or not is complete BS. I think it’s all about the effort and training you put into it. I will say that Hakan and Makoto will get stomped no matter what. Rogs can definitely play at high level. I think anyone can with the exception of the aforementioned characters. Like I said Gootecks beat J-Wong as Guile in GF of a tourney. I believe that’s a horrible matchup for Barlog. And at Evo 2k9 J-Wong used him a bit and got to GF. No disrespect to you, but I feel Barlog is a more viable character is some aspects than Vega. But to counter that I will say that IMO Vega is a nasty match-up for the Rog.


#11

I think you misunderstood me, Rog players steamroll opposition at a low/mid level with just the basics and a few tricks, but at high-level you actually have to be a good player to get wins consistently.

Balrog - Vega is in your favour, I find it a hard matchup until I get a feel for my opponent, but theres often not enough time for that outside of casuals.


#12

I guess so. I re-read your post and I couldn’t really find that you explained Rog at high level has to be skilled whereas at mid/low level you can win with basics. My bad. But I don’t know man. I cannot beat Vega with Balrog. My other main Sagat I can do much better but Vegas tend to destroy me as Rog. I don’t know, either it’s a bad matchup for me or I just don’t know the matchup.


#13

Doesn’t this belong in the balrog epiphany thread?

I think balrog has all the tools to win any major tournament. People can obviously see his strong tools now,which is why he is top tier. The game has just came out, so no one has figured out every matchup yet, which is why he isn’t dominating any tournaments right now. For example, people have found out how to outzone Rufus with Chun and Balrog in Japan.

Balrog is also a fixture in team tournaments.He is probably the best at owning mid/low tier characters in the game. In the JPN nationals, 2 Rogs were on the top 4 teams! Maeda Taison OCVed a team and PR Rog OCVED a team in the SvBs a few days ago.

In a few years when the game is figured out, people will find out ways how to properly outzone/outspace everyone with balrog.


#14

Balrog don’t have mix-up game :frowning:


#15

Balrog is top tier with a good zoning game and his bad match ups never go past 4/6. Biggest short coming is his limited offensive and defensive options which ultimately lead to him struggling to make come backs. This means that Balrog has a general weakness to any player who can establish a solid life lead then turtle it out. At high level play this is a pretty common situation. Regardless though I still use Balrog in tournaments I just don’t main him any more (I don’t main any character really at this point), but he’s always apart of my character selections.


#16

really ? Rog doesnt NEED more offensive options than he has. his cr.lp by itself shuts a ton of things down. j.hk/j.hp as aerials ? you dont NEED anything else other than those. one of the easiest BnB > ultras in the game ? you dont NEED more offensive options. balrogs pressure is ridiculous vs characters who dont have an invincible 3 frame reversal.

on the defensive side, you have headbutt which has ridiculous invincibility (lets not even talk about EX Headbutt), cr.hp to stop almost all jumpins cold, and his cr.lp, which EASILY interrupts strings / CH’s a lot.

Balrog has EVERYTHING a character needs to win a major, except arguably a projectile for long range zoning purposes. Rog may be a LITTLE limited in his options, but he doesnt need to expand on anything. what he DOES have, is more than enough. Were not talking about Sakura here who can basically only play one game ( which is resets).

/endrant

btw, sorry if i came off as being a little harsh, im just sick of hearing rog players complain about shit when they use an incredibly good character who is VERY easy to pick up and play (and win) with. Im not saying that rog players are bad, or only flock to him because of the simplicity of learning the character, i respect really good rog players (as i respect anyone who is good with any character). Rog has A LOT going for him. Be honest, rog isnt viper or cammy or another execution heavy character. btw, this is coming from a Guy main, for whatever you think its worth (and no, im not salty that Guy has a relatively bad matchup vs rog, i honestly dont care. most rogs dont know how to deal with Guy anyways).


#17

No mix ups, no cross ups, no command throw, no chip damage, really nothing to stop a player from using a crouch tech os to negate your offense. All he has is good lock downs with walk up jabs, but what good is a lock down with none of the above? The entire concept of offense and defense is a pure guessing game and both players are trying to skew that guessing game in their favor. What guessing is needed to stop Balrog’s offense? His offense at high levels literally consists of a 50/50 between tick throws and frame traps for what is honestly low damage and can be beaten with a delayed crouch tech os. Defensively HB is useless unless done randomly mid block string, and even then it’s a gamble. It’s very easy to safe jump it (you don’t even need to set it up really) and unless you do the ex version of it then it will lose to low attacks. I just feel that players who don’t play Balrog massively over estimate is offensive and defensive capabilities. If you can’t deal with Balrog’s offense then I’d hate to see you deal with say Akuma’s, C.Viper’s, Abel’s, or hell any character who can actually present options to make you guess wrong.

EDIT:

Guy does have a tough time against Balrog because he has problems establishing a solid life lead against him. But if you ever happen to do get a nice life lead try playing patient and do a delayed crouch tech os to defeat his offense. You’ll soon realize that Balrog has a hard time making you guess wrong, you’d have to have slow reactions to not block high in time to stop a jumping attack or his dash overhead. You don’t have to worry about him crossing you up, you don’t have to try and back dash or jump away from a command grab, you don’t have to worry about being chipped to death, you just need to worry about his very linear 50/50 for low damage.


#18

^^
if rog had a crossup he would be OP. why dont you think they gave dudley a crossup ? they can do far too much damage when in close. they cant give him everything. hell if had even ONE of those things you listed, he would be top tier in a heartbeat. rog with a command grab ? i cant even fathom it. rog with a high chip move ? would be unfair do to his frame trap ability. and again, he doesnt NEED mixups. if rog can get even a small life lead, he can do 1 of two things (providing you dont have an invincible 3 frame reversal)

  1. pressure the shit out of you, which would force you to do SOMETHING. you cant just turtle if you dont have the life lead. if this happens, rog is bound to land a cr.lp, which would then lead to AT LEAST his cr.lp x2, cr.lk xx headbutt.

  2. turtle and wait. stop all of your advances (we both know rog can space and punsih really well)

if rog was anything other than completely linear (and hes been completely linear in every game hes been in), he would be borderline OP.

and I know how to play the rog matchup pretty well. its not that hard. rog cant do much on his wakeup, his headbutt is easily baited (particularly with Guy). hes just like half of the cast when it comes to wakeups: free.

add on: why do you think capcom gave rog a crap FA ? its because hes already a very solid character. he doesnt need a projectile firing from his asshole and a command grab and a massive chip move. rog is MORE than fine the way he is.


#19

Like vVv scrub the best balrog player?


#20

Sigh, I’ve had this conversation too many times already. You’re completely missing my points, and some of what you’re saying has nothing to do with the gripes I’ve listed(like point 2 has nothing to do with his offense). Also you’re not viewing this from the perspective of a Balrog player. I’m not advocating that Balrog needs any of those things. To be honest I’m fine with the way he is, I’m just being realistic and acknowledging that he has bad offense and defense but good zoning. I’m specifically talking about a situation where your opponent has a solid life lead then decides to play defensively(you’re listing the exact opposite situation). In that situation nothing about Balrog’s offense is intimidating, there is nothing he can reliably do to make me guess wrong. This illustrates why Balrog has such a hard time making comebacks and why Balrog players don’t do well in tournaments often, it’s because they eventually run into a player who can put them in the situation I listed above. Also let me restate my stance before you misinterpret again, I am completely fine with the way Balrog is and I am not advocating that he needs any changes, I’m just being realistic and accepting that he has bad offense and defense thus leading to him having a hard time making comebacks which ultimately hurts his chances at winning major’s.