Beating Abel's U2, Breathless

cammy

#1

How do you defend against this? Spiral arrow wont break armor, jumping isn’t the safest thing to do if you misjudge your distance, causing you to eat a fat wall bounce. SBF definately is out of the question. Breathless comes out hella fast, and its catching me a good deal of the time, especially when 3/4 close to the corner (you cant jump back or forward from this distance). What choices do I have? Wait for him to release and try to NJ?

-Tags


#2

-He’s close enough? Jump over him with CStrike.
-He’s far enough? Jump back.
-He’s at a specific distance where you can’t tell if you will jump over him? Whiff HK CSpike, you will most likely land behind him.
-Got U1 ready? Use it if he’s at mid screen range.


#3

Will U1 work against him though? Can’t he just release it when you do U1, absorb the first hit with armor, and then get grabbed? I’m really curious about this and can’t test it right now.


#4

To be technical Cammy’s GDS is only vulnerable to grabs (Breathless is a grab) during frames 31-49 (1~10f invincible, 11~30f 50~87f airborne). So unless Abel player you are playing against can count frames using his eyes only, you will always land GDS at mid range. And you should never use it from far range anyway, because from that range he can just cancel his ultra and still punish you.


#5

well timed backdash works well too…i also think a hooligan razor or whatever (letting it not grab) beats it too


#6

How? its not armor breaking, its slow, and can be punished on reaction. Do you mean it can slide over him?


#7

[media=youtube]UXF3akmlY68[/media] like killacammy said, backdash can work if you know when they are going to release it. otherwise if you’re already getting caught landing on the ground, just mash DP or U1 if you’re close enough


#8

I’ve used it to bait ultra a few times on abel players. the thing is if they wait till they take the hit from it then release the ultra then you get him while if they let go any time before you hit the ground it beats it clean even if he dashes in to you.

honestly the best thing I think is to keep your ultra when he chooses ultra 2 and stay close once he has meter for it so you can just mash ultra to beat his.


#9

i think Abel’s u2 is kind of bad against cammy. Cammy has many option to runaway. backdash works like people said. also, a high dive kick will hit him and you go to the other side. The best chance for him to hit you with u2 is anti air ultra.


#10

I’d say it shuts down a good amount of Cannon Strike options and a few anticipated jumps as well.


#11

I guess some people would rather go with defensive ultra than offensive ultra. They would lose the ability to combo into ultra too.
At the of end of the day i think if they go back and watch the replays, they would rather have u1. u2 almost never hit me, i think i only got hit by it 3 times and i played many Abel. Alot of times, they changed back to u1 after they were unable hit with it.


#12

to be honest, i think its a glitch…its worked for me a few times in a match…ill hit up training room to verify


#13

If you purposely whiff cannon spike to “jump” over him, Abel could always cancel his ultra and then get a free combo off your whiff.


#14

U2 is probably Abels ultra of choice against Cammy - not because of it’s offensive power (it’s pretty limited in general, but more so in this fight) but because of it’s defensive power, which forces Cammy to practically stop her strike/low/throw game - once U2 is stocked, any oki Cammy attempts can be beat out with U2. As long as Abel is buffering the U2 motion once he’s been knocked down, he has a fairly good go to option if Cammy is getting too aggressive. If you’re playing aggressive when U2 is stocked, you’re going to get hit. If you’re not pressuring on wake up, you’re letting Abel get up free - which, IMO, is the biggest advantage U2 gives.

An Abel who doesn’t have to deal with wake up pressure/mix ups is a dangerous one - Cammy needs to try resort to a zoning game using st.rh and cr.mk once U2 is available, otherwise you’re going to be losing 480 health points.


#15

st.rh can be punished on whiff and maybe even reaction with u2 i think :frowning: cr.mk and st.mk should totally be good though

Whenever I see Abel with his U2, I turn into 90% baits for him to use his U2 so I can either Ultra back or at least make him waste it.


#16

not really he still have to deal with mix-up game. i’m not going to back off because he has ultra. that ultra is not as scary about you people think. alot of time, they think they catch me. but my c.strike just hit him and i went to the other side. i can upload couple video. i all do just walk forward when he is waking Up. it’s mind game again. i just make sure i select the option that a ultra can’t never hit me.


#17

Whoops, that should be 34, not 30 (i.e. until after the 5th hit). Wiki is now fixed.

Anyway…

As a reversal
Just make sure you only hit him with cancellable moves. After the Ultra flash, cancel into Cannon Spike or Super to armor break him.

Mid-screen, Grounded
If Abel is within his grab range, Ultra 1 / HK Super are guaranteed.
At full screen, he can cancel it to block Ultra, or he can grab the Super in between hits. At that range just don’t bother doing anything - he can’t reach you with his grab anyway.

Otherwise, you can always do at least one of the following:

  • Jump forwards HK Cannon Strike (whiff and land behind)
  • Jump backwards out of range.
    The overlap between the two options is tiny (i.e. less than a small training mode square) so you have to judge the distance accurately to determine which to use. Also, be aware that he can punish a whiffed Cannon Strike if he cancels the Ultra.

Near corner, Grounded
You can’t jump back because there’s nowhere to go. If you have Super or Ultra just throw it out. Otherwise just jump at him and see below.

Airborne, Not yet attacking
Depending on the range you can try Cannon Strike to go over him or throw off his timing, but if he doesn’t release until after it hits then you’re getting grabbed.

Another option is to land empty and do Cannon Spike / Super / Ultra. Harder than it sounds:

  • It must be inputted exactly on the first landing frame.
  • If you press a button 2 or more frames before landing, you get an air normal and your landing becomes punishable, meaning you can’t just mash it out.
  • If you press a button 1 frame before landing you get away with it. You see the first frame of an air normal appear, but it isn’t regarded as having been executed so you can still perform moves immediately upon landing.

Note that if Abel reads a Cannon Spike attempt, he can still punish it if he holds for long enough.

Anyway, to input it either:

Method 1: Plink
Just input the motion and hit K~K or K~P for Cannon Spike or Super (K~P prevents EX Spike. Use different strengths to avoid accidental throw/focus), KK~K or KKK~HP for Ultra. This gives you a 2 frame timing window.

Method 2: Negative Edge
Hold all the kick buttons during the flash, input the CS/Super motion, and release the buttons in sequence so you get 3 chances to nail the timing. This eliminates the possibility of an air normal coming out and screwing you over.
If you want you can press the buttons again immediately afterwards to account for the possibility of releasing them way too early.

tl;dr: Save your meter.


#18

SNIP was good sprint. But if I read someone’s post correctly, HK spiral arrow CAN beat his U2? is that assuming that he doesn’t release it after the first hit and gets knocked down?> I thought he could just release the grab after the first hit connects and still land the ultra?


#19

get to test that out today. HK SA in close range maybe able to beat out that ultra since SA is an air move, and that ultra is a throw.


#20

It can beat it, but it isn’t classed as airborne until the second hit, which makes it incredibly risky.

  • If Abel releases the Ultra immediately, you get grabbed every time (assuming he’s not an idiot who uses it full screen).

  • If you’re close then you can try to smack him with both hits, but if he releases during or before the first hit then you get grabbed, barring some really lucky timing/spacing.
    It might work against people who throw the Ultra at random and then wait to see what you do.

  • If you’re far away then you might connect with just the airborne part of a SA (any strength). If Abel releases the Ultra too early (but not immediately) then he can whiff it, but on the other hand it’s really easy for him to just wait and punish on reaction.