Beating anti-air charge

zangief

#1

I’m having a problem with Guile and Boxer. For both of these characters, they have been able to safely crouch back. If I go up to them, they poke low weak attacks to keep me away. I can’t even hope to focus, because it just hits too high up to hit crouching opponents. I don’t think I have any jumping attacks that beat out the Buffalo Headbutt or Flash Kick. Any other move I try is unsafe and punishable. What am I missing?


#2

from what I’ve read on other threads Jumping Medium Kick trades/stuffs flash kick. Check out the Match Ups thread.


#3

well, instead of trying to beat their anti-air, you can try to beat their pokes.

st. mp, st. mk (yes it’s unsafe), c.lk, c.lk/s.lk XX exgh, or even exgh if you know they’re going to throw something out, forward c.hk…

you can walk-up spd or tick-spd or whiff-approach spd.

short jump in from a safe distance to try and bait an anti-air. or don’t jump at all and simply try to bait them to do something, anything.

lots of options out there.

and remember, with charging characters…when they’re walking forward they have no charge. that’s a good time to attack.


#4

Basics man - sounds like you are missing knowing when to block. First of all don’t jump at them when they have a crouch charge. After you walk in and get close and it looks like they are gonna do their anti-air move, just block and punish them when they land.

I wouldn’t try short jump tricks vs. boxer cuz his anti-air has such a good horizontal range too, so doing it from a safe distance is the same as just walking forward. Don’t do random PPP lariat against boxer either because his headbutt beats that too.


#5

yup totally right. i played in a tournament last night against a boxer and i had to be like 2 character distances away and i tried a neutral jump to try and bait headbutt, he did it and it nailed me riiiight before my feet were back on the ground and i ate ultra and ended up losing. So bummed, not to mention i looked like a freggin idiot. but yea, dont underestimate the distance of headbutt.

Flash kick however is much more manageable. Jp. fw. beats or trades with it if timed right, but its still not a good idea to jump on him when hes got a charge unless your going to cross him up.


#6

You know you can move forward without jumping right?

Try it sometime.


#7

LoLz at Renegade.

You know the way I play against Boxer??? Believe it or not I play the game EVERYONE play against a Gief . . . Runaway. I bait him to try to dash and hit him with jabs/c.lk or even kkk/ppp. Once I get in a few hits I keep running. But once I know he doesn’t have a charge and comes towards me I attack. When he’s knocked down . . . i play safe and crouch in front of him (make sure you’re blocking and make sure you are ready to tech his throw just in case). Some Boxers just headbutts and I punish that with SPDs. Of course, you gotta try to show you’re gonna try to do a crossup to bait that boxer’s HB. Most of the time it works but they learn so mix up the games . . . and keep away and hope you can time your pokes and attacks.

Guiles?? yeah, well I just have a problem with them lolz. I still can’t get over those damn SBs and airthrows.


#8

Guiles are usually baitable. If they are retreating, build up a meter with kkk, then bulldog foward till you see how he’s trying to poke you out. At that point just bait n counter. EXGH will score knockdown, and there’s nothing Guile can do once knocked down against Gief as his reversal options all get snuffed. Rose has a better time in this situation thatn Guile lol.

Boxer…the good ones will zone you without leaving the ground with headbutt. his nromals shut out all your jump-in attempts, at worse trade. So its akin to Guile again…walk foward and bait. D/F Rh works wonders in this match up as it beats any form of dash punch thats not EX…so you can just slowly walk/slide your way into a comfortable range. If the Balrog isn’t that great, you can get away with a s.rh -> jab spd…ugh I dunno if thats a cacnel or what exactly, but you know …nuts in the face kick into SPD. After landing that once they become a bit more fidgity (again this dependso n skill level) and more prone to jump attack options.

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#9

This advice is hollow. “Bait-able” and “Bait and counter” don’t mean anything. You’re basically saying "Get him to do something stupid and punish it. Well duh.

Basically, Guile can do one of two things to prevent you from jumping over a sonic boom.

  1. C.Fp or ground based anti air. Answer: This can be empty short jumped

  2. Preemptive Jump Forward for MK or Air throw.
    – this is much harder to get around but here goes.

-If you neutral jump a sonic boom, he just jumped toward you and did your work for you. He has to jump backwards now, giving you time to walk forward.

-glove a sonic boom every once in a while, from far distance.
-jump jab and strong can sometimes trade with guile’s leg.
-MK has a poor angle and fierce is too slow to beat Guile’s MK

Not true. You can empty short jump his C.FP and SPD/Ultra him. All of his other normals suck as anti air. Ultradavid and I have said this countless times.

And “preemptively” whiffing a -11 move mid screen is a good idea because? Balrog could ultra you on reaction, not just jab straight.

Stop giving bad advice man. You should know S. HK -> Jab Spd is not a cancel. S.HK is not a cancelable move, and you can’t cancel a move that doesn’t hit something (after the first frames anyway).
It’s a whiffed move then grab attempt. And it only works on scrubs because the S.HK takes a long time to recover.
You should know better.


#10

And if you mean try to bait and counter a sonic boom or a non-sweep normal (and you’ll never see a random sweep from a good Guile, by the way), you can only do that by guessing, not by reacting. If Guile blocks your ex hand, he can actually do pretty sizeable damage with cr. mp xx flash kick or cr. mp xx super or even just ultra (and none of those have to be done with reversal timing). Even if he just throws you backwards to clear room and get out of the corner, that still sucks for you. The punishment for your random ex hand is not just the damage from the flash kick or throw, it’s all the damage you take trying to get back into the situation you were in before you threw out random ex hand, and against a reasonable Guile, I guarantee that’s gonna be a pretty significant percentage of your life.

I don’t mean this to be offensive, but I continue to be surprised at some of your guys’ matchup experience and advice. If your experience is comprised of twitchy Guiles who get easily baited and Boxers who do random headbutts or who can’t react to a whiffed sweep that’s literally out there longer than a Ryu/Ken jab dragon punch, and if you’re still not sure where and with what you can jump against Guile and Boxer, then, well, maybe you should hold off on giving advice in those matchups. After all, the jumping thing is something you could find out how to do by spending only 15 minutes in training mode trying it.


#11

Sigh, I usually preface my advice with regards to the skill elvel of the opponent, I forgot to and get slammed…sigh
starts playing Hulk music on piano
hops in Cargo van as a hitch hiker
dropped off in Gen forums

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#12

I have a lot of success with superman punch and short jump antics.


#13

The charge character I have the most trouble with is Honda. Light headbutt and Neutral jump just kills me. Honestly, I’m not even sure how the match is suppose to be played besides footsies all day.


#14

offline fears anytime honda hits fp
online fears anytime Honda hits s.rh

Everything else from Honda is doable…but those are nasty (but thats Gen match-up thread stuff shrug)

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#15

dunno about you but I have more trouble with Blanka and Guile than anyone else really. Hondas are okay with me just gotta be patient and learn their patterns. Most of them have it and will not change for some reason lolz. But yeah, just bait honda and punish fast and retreat. That’s what I do against a Honda. I usually k-lariat and p-lariat far to bait a flying headbutt. From that I think you can score a knockdown and start your mixups . . . watch out for uhh . . . sumo drop . . . but again you gotta study the player first to bait him correctly.


#16

Its pretty intimiddating playing as Honda against Gief. Its a doable match-up, but you really have to have your head in the battle and essentially play defensively, Gief has a HARD counter for everyone of Honda’s moves. I need to practice that match up (as Honda) moar

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