Beating auto-correcting AA reversals


#1

At what point does an anti-air reversal auto correct on wakeup? In other words: how can I crossup someone with an auto-correcting reversal (DP, for example) without fear of punishment? How can I set up a practice dummy to try it out in training mode?


#2

Let me know if you figure that out. I’ve read that most Shoto characters are capable of an auto correcting reversal, as well as (and probably more so) charge characters, but it’s something about the timing. I don’t play shotos though so I can’t tell you.

Also be aware, they may be betting on you throwing out a DP that they will punish on whiff or block, so know when to DP and when not to, as well as what strength DP, as a HP Dragon Punch is way more punishable than a Light version. It isn’t wise to always throw one out on wakeup.


#3

Depends on the characters and moves involved. If the move you’re trying to beat has 4 or more frames of startup, then it can be safe jumped.

On a more pedantic note, most auto-correct moves aren’t really reversals ie. they don’t come out on the very first wakeup frame and you don’t see the reversal message appear on the side of the screen. What people do is buffer the motion, then press punch button after you’ve crossed them up. This ensures the move comes out in the right direction. If an auto-corrected move comes out and the reversal message appears, it means you timed the cross-up too early.

Anyway, the theory behind avoiding punishment from auto-corrected moves is based on the idea of a safe jump. Against certain moves you can perform a jump in attack on wakeup that will always cause a reversal to go the wrong way. However, as I mentioned before under usual circumstances, the opponent will usually wait for you to cross them up before pressing the button. That’s where the trick comes in. Usually, a 3f reversal can’t be safe jumped by most characters because with reversal timing the opponent will always beat your jump-in. But if you force them to delay their DP in order to auto-correct, then it effectively it’s not a 3f reversal anymore, and you’ll be able to block before the DP comes out. Like I said though, the setup depends on the characters and moves involved.

Here’s a setup against Ken that causes his DP reversals to go the wrong way:

It’s not a safe-jump though because if Ken waits till after he wakes up to perform the DP, he will get hit. It is kinda hard to time that sort of DP though.


#4

It’d help to know what character you’re playing. Generally, though, you need to get an untechable knockdown and use specific spacing and timing to make sure you can’t be auto-corrected. You want to give them as little time as possible to input their dp. You do this by making sure you cross over them just as they’re getting up. Post your character, and someone might be able to help you with specific setups.


#5

Dang, thanks for the speedy and thorough responses!

I main Dee Jay, but I’ve been dabbling in T. Hawk lately.


#6

Learn to combo into his sweep.

Check this out at 14:50. Space that crossup after sweep correctly, and it’s very difficult to dp.


#7

By crossing up without them using anti air of course. You can’t force someone to play a certain way, you could at least not make it easy for the other person to beat you. The only exception would be if the other person is complete and utter trash to the point you gain a false sense of confidence.


#8

If on their first free frame you are in front of them, they will reversal in that direction–if on the first hitting frame you are behind them, it will whiff. Certain setups can cause a reversal to go the wrong way, though it went the correct way at the time the move came out. And other setups as mentioned can cross-up the move (before it becomes airborn, usually, resulting in a counter-hit).

Characters always (or never, depending on how you look at it) autocorrect. It’s when they can’t see you (literally the hitbox isn’t in their LOS) that they’ll turn around in a certain number of frames, and if they wake up into a reversal move they’ll turn around in 0 frames before doing the move.


#9

I don’t understand the logic here. The reason 3 frame DPs can’t be safejumped is because after attacking in the air you have 2 frames of landing recovery where you can be hit. To do a safejump, you must spend at least one frame in the air while your opponent is up off the ground. So 1 frame in the air + 2 frames of landing recovery = you get hit by a 3 frame DP on your last frame of landing recovery. Whether they delay or not is immaterial, you simply cannot safejump 3 frame DPs barring some kind of hitbox weirdness that allows your jump recovery to avoid the DP’s first active frame.


#10

Yes, that’s why these setups are character specific and usually only work in the corner. The corner adds a barrier which allows you to aim for the center of the hitbox on wakeup. Against certain reversals, the forward trajectory of the move will cause it to whiff, and if the opponent delays it to make it auto-correct, it becomes a safe-jump (or they eat it in cases where it lands meaty).


#11

It’s all character specific. Like I know for Viper you can time a jump-in mk or hk burn kick so that you beat out DP’s clean (end up crossing up and avoiding invincibility frames), but I guess she’s a lot different than most characters in the regard that burn kick changes the trajectory of your jump.